Why not steel in shorter hybrids?

[onthehunt526]

Hello again universe,

Another hybrid question for you to ponder. 

I remember when hybrids first were replacing long irons, about 10 years ago, some companies, were using steel shafts in the hybrids (if the traditional irons were steel shafted)

Fast forward to 2010 and '11 nearly every off the rack blended set had graphite shafted hybrids. 

Now in 2016, it has become common-place for this. (At least the sets I've seen)... 

I will not say that I'm against graphite in hybrids, I have graphite in my 3-hybrid. I understand, if someone wanted steel in their hybrids or fairway woods for that matter, they could. 

Here's the questions.

1) A lot of hybrids are almost like mini-fairways out there. Is that part of the reason, most OEMs went to graphite in hybrids as a stock shaft?

2) In blended sets, for those of you who have them or know of them, wouldn't it make more sense on a feel standpoint to have the same shafts as the traditional irons? (I'm making the assumption in blended sets the hybrid is supposed to replace a numbered iron)

I will be honest, I used to hate and I mean loathe hybrids... they didn't really seem to me like they would help my game. After about 3-4 years of not even touching one, I finally got one in 2010 out of necessity. I fell in love with how stupidly easy they are to hit... I have a 19° 3 hybrid now with no plans to replace it with a traditional 3-iron. 

In my opinion, hybrids are great. However, if the hybrid is an iron replacement shouldn't it have the same shaft as the iron it is replacing?

This is a shaft material topic, not a shaft length topic or a 15 yards longer topic...

So that being said what happened to steel-shafted hybrids?

Shane

P.S. If any of you remember the Nike Ignite iron set that had  3H, 4-PW you'll remember the 3H had the same shaft as the irons.

 

[Mike Boatright]

Hybrids hosel sizes are either wood size like 3.50 or smaller sometimes .335. This is why woods cant take a parallel irons dynamic gold shafts sized 3.70 or 3.55 taper these are iron shafts for reference. You can buy a brass shim some shafting bead and use a 3.50 hybrid head into a 3.55 tapered shaft. This somehow artificially snugs it in there however the problem lies in flex. A stock 3.50 wood shaft cut down to any less than 2 iron length will be to whippy also called soft stepping. This occurs when you take a tapered 3 iron shaft and place it on a 6 iron mizuno or something. The shaft flex weakens this way 5 x 25% or 2 to 3 full flexes id say. It can be done but it's a science to it. I build clubs as a hobby so you need the shim,shafting beads,a xx steel driver shaft 3.50 and a good hybrid head that's not to heavy the end result would be about a strong reg flex 5 iron length hybrid.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Mike Boatright

[onthehunt526]

A few shaft companies make steel shafts for hybrids, KBS and True Temper do, and all the hybrid shafts I've seen on both sites are .370 parallel... I don't know, but I'm thinking the hosels are iron diameter.

[Mike Boatright]

For sure I'm talking about the majority of em and forget callaway they often have a bore though shaft. If you can find a nice hybrid head that's 3.70 then your in luck because that';s the easiest most compatible shaft to find.

 

ttp://www.golfworks.com/images/art/TaylorMade.pdf

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[onthehunt526]

My EX9 is .370, but that is neither here nor there... even the graphite hybrid shafts are .370, Matrix, Project X, Diamana, all .370...

@Mike Boatright it still doesn't answer any of the questions I asked... because graphite shafts are typically 20-30 grams lighter than steel, Matrix has a transitional shaft that is 105g in X flex... 

I knew you could get TM Rescue Mids in steel... 

I digress, let me re-assess this thread, for a second. 

OK, if hybrids are replacing a numbered iron... why would a company put a graphite shaft that is 25g lighter than the steel in the irons, in the hybrid, when they could put 85g steel in the entire set including hybrids? 85g is pretty lightweight steel, and Apollo has a 75g steel iron shaft... 

By the way @Mike Boatright, they still make steel wood shafts.

[Mike Boatright]

I guess because it's easier to hit for the regular guy. All of my hybrids wont fit my steel shafts and yes they still make steel wood shafts.

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

OK, if hybrids are replacing a numbered iron... why would a company put a graphite shaft that is 25g lighter than the steel in the irons, in the hybrid, when they could put 85g steel in the entire set including hybrids? 85g is pretty lightweight steel, and Apollo has a 75g steel iron shaft... 

Extra height from shaft kick?

[SavvySwede]

1. They can charge more for a graphite club which = more profit
2. Distance sells more units

It's all about that money sonny.

[onthehunt526]

1 hour ago, SavvySwede said:

1. They can charge more for a graphite club which = more profit
2. Distance sells more units

It's all about that money sonny.

I understand that companies are looking for more profit. They are looking to sell more units NOW.

It makes sense on that front.

Here's my take, I know most if not all companies offer customization, now wouldn't it make sense, if one wanted a set of hybrid irons with all steel shafts... that they could, and with that outstanding customer service, get a customer to purchase another set in say 5 years?

[Tee2Trees]

Drivers, fairways, and hybrids are designed with a headweight that is compatible with a graphite shaft and its bend characteristics.  If you want to use a steel shaft in any of these clubs, you are going to need to increase the headweight.

There is no profit in it for the OEMs to offer this option, but you can always do it yourself.

[SavvySwede]

26 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

I understand that companies are looking for more profit. They are looking to sell more units NOW.

It makes sense on that front.

Here's my take, I know most if not all companies offer customization, now wouldn't it make sense, if one wanted a set of hybrid irons with all steel shafts... that they could, and with that outstanding customer service, get a customer to purchase another set in say 5 years?

Only if the demand for steel shafts was greater than the cost of having to keep all of those extra steel shafts in stock for the assembly team. Also, second on what @Tee2Trees said, the swingweights would be off.

[onthehunt526]

15 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

IOnly if the demand for steel shafts was greater than the cost of having to keep all of those extra steel shafts in stock for the assembly team. Also, second on what @Tee2Trees said, the swingweights would be off.

I'll buy that the swingweight would be off.

Not all companies necessarily keep all shafts on site, the have to special order some... 

That being said. If you have raw length steel iron shafts on site, and are making a set of Qwerty hybrid irons 4-5-6 H, 7-PW, GW... and you get the more players hybrid ZEd hybrid irons 3-4 h, 5-PW, if all the companies irons are the same length for the same numbered club, if Billy Joe wanted his Qwerty 6-Hybrid in steel he could get it right?

[billchao]

On 3/16/2016 at 2:28 AM, onthehunt526 said:

1) A lot of hybrids are almost like mini-fairways out there. Is that part of the reason, most OEMs went to graphite in hybrids as a stock shaft?

Yea, sort of? It's not really about being a mini-fairway than simply about the head design. They can vary from one head to another so it's easier to pair up with graphite shafts and get the launch characteristics the designers are looking for.

On 3/16/2016 at 2:28 AM, onthehunt526 said:

2) In blended sets, for those of you who have them or know of them, wouldn't it make more sense on a feel standpoint to have the same shafts as the traditional irons? (I'm making the assumption in blended sets the hybrid is supposed to replace a numbered iron)

I'm not sure they feel any differently, though TBH I've never owned a blended set. I'd imagine that club designers wouldn't overlook something as basic as feel though. It wouldn't suprise me if using the same steel shafts as the rest of the set might change the playing characteristics of the hybrids so that they wouldn't be a good fit in the set anymore.

On 3/16/2016 at 2:28 AM, onthehunt526 said:

So that being said what happened to steel-shafted hybrids?

Besides what I mentioned above, I think it's just a better fit for most golfers. A graphite shaft can be designed a number of different ways, but steel shafts are mostly limited by the material they are made of.

[SavvySwede]

7 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

I'll buy that the swingweight would be off.

Not all companies necessarily keep all shafts on site, the have to special order some... 

That being said. If you have raw length steel iron shafts on site, and are making a set of Qwerty hybrid irons 4-5-6 H, 7-PW, GW... and you get the more players hybrid ZEd hybrid irons 3-4 h, 5-PW, if all the companies irons are the same length for the same numbered club, if Billy Joe wanted his Qwerty 6-Hybrid in steel he could get it right?

What percentage of golfers do you think want and/or need steel shafts in their hybrids? It's just too small a segment of the market to dedicate any time or resources for them. You can always reshaft yourself or do what I did and buy an older steel shafted hybrid on ebay.

[onthehunt526]

34 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

What percentage of golfers do you think want and/or need steel shafts in their hybrids? It's just too small a segment of the market to dedicate any time or resources for them. You can always reshaft yourself or do what I did and buy an older steel shafted hybrid on ebay.

Want or need steel?, probably very small as you said in your post...

I supposed one could custom order a hybrid with a steel shaft, if that's want they wanted or needed...

+1, to the eBay comment, I've seen everything from TaylorMade, to Nickent and Even my beloved older Exotics CB2 in steel... 

I agree with the versatility of graphite there are several different characteristics that make it easier to match graphite to a hybrid, than there are for steel...

Also another little piece I had forgotten some of the graphite shafts now are closer to the feel of steel than ever before, so the hybrid feeling the same as the iron, is closer than ever...

Basically from what I've gathered from the Universe is, steel shafted hybrids didn't last as long in the mass market for several reasons. But they didn't have the luxury of a slow death like steel in fairway metals.