Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[dave s]

A good 'trouble shot' to have in your bag:

Played a course twice recently that has a lot of mature pine trees lining fairways.  The northern kind, not like the southern yellow pines we see in the Carolinas.  The course definitely does NOT cut any of the lower limbs off, either.  This means the lower branches grow down to and lay on the ground for the most part.  Twice in two rounds I found myself INSIDE the lower branches of pine trees, ball lying on pine needles and the only 'out' shot was almost rolling the ball through a very low clearance opening between branches.

Decided the only option for hitting the ball out in both cases was using my #4 hybrid, choking down on it significantly and using a putting type stroke.  Worked like a charm.  Both times the ball flew out of the trees at 1 foot off the ground and back into play.  One of the shots was very near a green. The 'out' shot with the 4 hybrid actually ended up on the green.

Good shot to have in the bag.  Since the 4 hybrid was the best choice in my bag, it'll be my 'go-to' shot from that type of situation.

dave

[Lihu]

A good 'trouble shot' to have in your bag:

Played a course twice recently that has a lot of mature pine trees lining fairways.  The northern kind, not like the southern yellow pines we see in the Carolinas.  The course definitely does NOT cut any of the lower limbs off, either.  This means the lower branches grow down to and lay on the ground for the most part.  Twice in two rounds I found myself INSIDE the lower branches of pine trees, ball lying on pine needles and the only 'out' shot was almost rolling the ball through a very low clearance opening between branches.

Decided the only option for hitting the ball out in both cases was using my #4 hybrid, choking down on it significantly and using a putting type stroke.  Worked like a charm.  Both times the ball flew out of the trees at 1 foot off the ground and back into play.  One of the shots was very near a green. The 'out' shot with the 4 hybrid actually ended up on the green.

Good shot to have in the bag.  Since the 4 hybrid was the best choice in my bag, it'll be my 'go-to' shot from that type of situation.

dave

I have had to do the exact same thing, only I used my 3i. Choked up on it to the metal and took a knockdown swing. It kept the ball like a couple yards at the apex from the ground for most of the flight.

http://www.pga.com/knockdown-shot-video

[rkim291968]

I wanted to offer a thought on strategy.  I don't largely get involved in actual swing mechanics and such - I more enjoy the strategy discussions. I feel strongly about this applying to we hackers, but it might apply to single digits as well.  Anyway - a buddy and I played this weekend and I realized I had been employing a strategy and had not really ever vocalized it.  He is about a 110 type golfer.

On a shortish par 4, I duffed my drive about 90 yards or something.  We get to my ball and I pull a 5i.  He asks me why I'm going iron when I have so much distance to now cover.  It occurred to me how many times I had seen him go with hybrid/fairway wood after a similar duff.  And many other folks over time.  I think the natural choice after a bad shot is to try to get back all you can in the next shot.  You have to right?  You're at a deficit now. But I'd guess a lot of blow-up holes get started this way.  Duffed drive --> long club off the deck --> now lying 3 in woods, pond, bunker or maybe even a lost ball.  Unless you hit a pretty good shot, I feel a snowman could be coming.

Unless it is really open, I think the smarter play is to lay back here.  Protecting bogey or maybe even double is a safer bet here than trying to get 200+ yards out of a shot and risking more trouble.  A bogey golfer getting that kind of distance off the deck, down the middle, around any trouble sounds risky to me.  And what is the payoff?  Just being closer really.  You still aren't going to green it.

Our normal routine is probably to get on in 3 and 2-putt for bogey.  So:

- At this point, you still have a good chance to do just that with 5i

- Even if you miss the green from 30-70 with your third shot, you are close and still have a chance to get up and down for bogey

- Even if it takes you 4 to get on and you 2-putt, it isn't as bad as it sounds.  You get bogey on most holes anyway, so getting double after a duffed tee shot is pretty much expected.  Make up for it with a par on a hole where you hit a better tee shot

Any thoughts from the bogey gallery?

I need to apply the strategy more, from shot #1 and not just from duffed 1st shot.   I don't apply the strategy consistently.  E.g, if I have been hitting 3W well, I will use it after the said duff shot.   The right play is probably go with something shorter.    If I have not been hitting 3W well, I try to go with a safer shot.

The other strategy that I often don't apply is hitting away from trouble.   I do way too many pin hunting instead of hitting the approach shot to the fattest (safest) part of green.   I have too much unfounded confidence with my iron ...

[Lihu]

I need to apply the strategy more, from shot #1 and not just from duffed 1st shot.   I don't apply the strategy consistently.  E.g, if I have been hitting 3W well, I will use it after the said duff shot.   The right play is probably go with something shorter.    If I have not been hitting 3W well, I try to go with a safer shot.

The other strategy that I often don't apply is hitting away from trouble.   I do way too many pin hunting instead of hitting the approach shot to the fattest (safest) part of green.   I have too much unfounded confidence with my iron ...

Although, I have not yet applied all the techniques in the book yet, LSW is a great place for us Bogey golfers to begin our improvements.

[teamroper60]

well, my scores are not showing it but I have finally turned at least one corner...   I have fought a two way miss for a long time, especially with my driver.     A lot of that had to do with struggling to find the right tempo.   For as long as I have been playing golf, (roughly 4 years now), I have fought a slice and tried desperately to hit a draw.    While i have achieved that at times, I keep coming back to a fade.   I have finally decided to accept that I hit a fade and have been working on making that shot repeatable.    I am hesitant to say it had reached that point, but if I am not there, I am damn close...    Close enough that I am now teeing up on the right side of the tee box and aiming to the left side of the fairway..   It bites me on the ass once in a while but more often, I am playing a second shot from the short grass.    At this point, I am focusing on staying down and in the shot with my irons  rather than lifting up and topping it or hitting it off the toe.....

[CarlOwen]

I'm still working on not letting bad holes/bad breaks affect my mood on the remaining holes- I have a really hard time recovering, with all the "what ifs"  and this recurring thought "this is why you'll never break 80"

otherwise, I'm working on just trying to more confident and optimistic as I address the ball on every shot.

Swing wise, I'm actually pretty content for once.

[dave s]

I have had to do the exact same thing, only I used my 3i. Choked up on it to the metal and took a knockdown swing. It kept the ball like a couple yards at the apex from the ground for most of the flight.

http://www.pga.com/knockdown-shot-video

4 hybrid was my 'longest option' before my 5- or 3-wood.  Not enough room inside a large pine tree for those clubs.  Also, longest iron in the bag anymore is a 6-iron which would have launched higher and into the tree branches.  Agree with you however that a 3-iron is also a really good choice for keeping the ball down and popping it out of the kind of trouble I found inside the very large pine trees.

dave

[CarlOwen]

well, my scores are not showing it but I have finally turned at least one corner...   I have fought a two way miss for a long time, especially with my driver.     A lot of that had to do with struggling to find the right tempo.   For as long as I have been playing golf, (roughly 4 years now), I have fought a slice and tried desperately to hit a draw.    While i have achieved that at times, I keep coming back to a fade.   I have finally decided to accept that I hit a fade and have been working on making that shot repeatable.    I am hesitant to say it had reached that point, but if I am not there, I am damn close...    Close enough that I am now teeing up on the right side of the tee box and aiming to the left side of the fairway..   It bites me on the ass once in a while but more often, I am playing a second shot from the short grass.    At this point, I am focusing on staying down and in the shot with my irons  rather than lifting up and topping it or hitting it off the toe.....

I meant to reply to your post first, anyhow, I too am embracing the "powerfade" by aiming up the left side of most fairways and keeping the ball in play. I'd say the total left to right travel is about 20 yards so it is fairly predictable and manageable. I'd say I hit most fairways pretty consistently as a result.

However, as you pointed out, every once in awhile it comes back to bite me when the ball just goes dead straight up the left side rough. regarding your second point, I learned that the second shot from the rough really isn't about lifting up so much as its about completing a robust follow through with my weight more on the left side.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I have had to do the exact same thing, only I used my 3i. Choked up on it to the metal and took a knockdown swing. It kept the ball like a couple yards at the apex from the ground for most of the flight.

http://www.pga.com/knockdown-shot-video

4 hybrid was my 'longest option' before my 5- or 3-wood.  Not enough room inside a large pine tree for those clubs.  Also, longest iron in the bag anymore is a 6-iron which would have launched higher and into the tree branches.  Agree with you however that a 3-iron is also a really good choice for keeping the ball down and popping it out of the kind of trouble I found inside the very large pine trees.

dave

5i is my longest iron but I can deloft it and play the same shot.   In fact, in similar situation but under a short tree where I can't use a long club, I grabbed a PW and deloft it to kick the ball out 30 yards.   The ball never flew above 3 feet.   It works - I have a lot of experience of  doing it, unfortunately.

I am going to try same strategy on par 3 elevated (about 100 feet) holes, often windy..  The greens are surrounded by danger and  I normally hit 3H.  Too often, my ball ends up in OB, bunker, deep grass.   I will deloft 5i and hit it as low as I can.  In theory, it should go very low, fall 30 yards short of green, and bounce into the same green.     Will see how it goes later today.

[Lihu]

5i is my longest iron but I can deloft it and play the same shot.   In fact, in similar situation but under a short tree where I can't use a long club, I grabbed a PW and deloft it to kick the ball out 30 yards.   The ball never flew above 3 feet.   It works - I have a lot of experience of  doing it, unfortunately.

I am going to try same strategy on par 3 elevated (about 100 feet) holes, often windy..  The greens are surrounded by danger and  I normally hit 3H.  Too often, my ball ends up in OB, bunker, deep grass.   I will deloft 5i and hit it as low as I can.  In theory, it should go very low, fall 30 yards short of green, and bounce into the same green.     Will see how it goes later today.

This sounds hard. Controlling a hot face on the modern irons can be really challenging.

I took my Burners out for a spin the other day, and the face was so hot that I could get my 4i to go 200 yards on the only two shots I made with it (only 2 or 3 clubs shorter than my steel shafted driver). The only issue I have is that it feels really uncontrollable. There is no margin for error. The ball could go left or right if I so much as waggle the wrong way before my shot. Not that I don't fight this problem even with my MP-32/52.

[teamroper60]

I meant to reply to your post first, anyhow, I too am embracing the "powerfade" by aiming up the left side of most fairways and keeping the ball in play. I'd say the total left to right travel is about 20 yards so it is fairly predictable and manageable. I'd say I hit most fairways pretty consistently as a result.

However, as you pointed out, every once in awhile it comes back to bite me when the ball just goes dead straight up the left side rough. regarding your second point, I learned that the second shot from the rough really isn't about lifting up so much as its about completing a robust follow through with my weight more on the left side.

My typical fade isn't moving as much as yours,  maybe half that and often less, which is why I have decided it is probably best for me to live with it at this point, rather than continue to struggle trying to hit a draw and ending up all over the course and especially the rough.  So for now, in an effort to improve my scores, I have decided to play the fade as it has become something I can hit far more often than not and much more fluidly.  I have to say, it has made standing on that tee box less stressfull for me, as I now have an actual plan, versus "spraying and praying".  LOL

I will keep working on the draw up on the range and firmly believe the time I have spent trying to draw the ball is what has turned my huge slice into a baby fade, so I am still holding out hope I will find a draw out there...   Ironically, driver is the only club I hit a fade with.   I have a tendency to hook the 3 wood and everything else is straight or a draw and always have been.

I know what my problem is with lifting up, I keep wanting to watch the shot fly before I hit it..     At any rate, I do feel getting a reliable tee shot is going to let me turn a corner..  Especially since now I can use the LSW strategies to plan how I will play the hole in front of me.  Of course, just as I get to this point, fall is here and cold weather is just around the corner!  LOL

[Lihu]

My typical fade isn't moving as much as yours,  maybe half that and often less, which is why I have decided it is probably best for me to live with it at this point, rather than continue to struggle trying to hit a draw and ending up all over the course and especially the rough.  So for now, in an effort to improve my scores, I have decided to play the fade as it has become something I can hit far more often than not and much more fluidly.  I have to say, it has made standing on that tee box less stressfull for me, as I now have an actual plan, versus "spraying and praying".  LOL

I will keep working on the draw up on the range and firmly believe the time I have spent trying to draw the ball is what has turned my huge slice into a baby fade, so I am still holding out hope I will find a draw out there...   Ironically, driver is the only club I hit a fade with.   I have a tendency to hook the 3 wood and everything else is straight or a draw and always have been.

I know what my problem is with lifting up, I keep wanting to watch the shot fly before I hit it..     At any rate, I do feel getting a reliable tee shot is going to let me turn a corner..  Especially since now I can use the LSW strategies to plan how I will play the hole in front of me.  Of course, just as I get to this point, fall is here and cold weather is just around the corner!  LOL

Last month, I got a few "You really know how to play that slice" comments from various people with whom I played. On one tee box my slice rolled onto the middle of the fairway. It was unintentional, of course, but the response was "How did you do that?"

After slicing out OB into the middle of the street adjacent to the course two/three weeks ago, I decided to go with shorter, and am now using my steel shaft driver again with straight drives. Lost 20+ yard loss in distance, but it's so I can just get the ball out there to practice using my long irons .

Eventually, I will need to learn to get rid of that slice with my Cobra driver.

[rkim291968]

I think it is worth fixing slice instead of "going" with it.  With slice, you lose distance.  With the spin that comes with slice, it's hard to predict where the ball is going to end up when it lands.   Moreover, IMHO, it isn't that difficult to fix, relatively speaking.

[No Mulligans]

I think it is worth fixing slice instead of "going" with it.  With slice, you lose distance.  With the spin that comes with slice, it's hard to predict where the ball is going to end up when it lands.   Moreover, IMHO, it isn't that difficult to fix, relatively speaking.

+1

At my skill level (or should that be lack of skill level), I'm more interested in getting a fundamentally solid siwng than anything else.  If I can do that, my scores will get better.

[Lihu]

+1

At my skill level (or should that be lack of skill level), I'm more interested in getting a fundamentally solid siwng than anything else.  If I can do that, my scores will get better.

This is the priority, and when you get good mechanics, the hope is the slice will diminish.

Actually, my slice is usually about 5-10 yards. It has gone up to 20 or so, and that's where it gets dangerous around the boundary tee boxes. So, I quit using my real driver for a while in favor of the steel shafted one.

[No Mulligans]

My miss, which is way too often, is a slice with my driver.  Regardless, I set up with a closed stance and aim just right of the middle.  I'm not going to line up to play my miss.  The heck with my score.

[natureboy]

AVERAGE SCORE

Relationship

CATEGORY

71

75

79

81

85

89

91

95

99

GIR

12

10

8

7

5

3

2

0

0

Strong

% Fairways

81

71

61

56

46

36

31

21

11

Weak

Iron Accuracy

80

68

53

47

33

20

13

0

0

Good

Putts per Round

29.0

30.3

31.7

32.3

33.7

35.0

35.7

37.0

38.3

Weak

Pitch/Chip/Sand

5.1

7.4

9.8

10.9

13.3

15.6

16.8

19.2

21.5

Strong

Birdies

3.2

2.4

1.8

1.5

0.8

0.1

0

0

0

Strong

Pars

11.8

10.3

8.8

8.1

6.6

5.1

4.3

2.8

1.3

Strong

I'm sure my % Fairways is sitting in the 81 slot because I don't actually use driver.  That 56% will be shorter than most.  Not sure what Iron Accuracy or Pitch/Chip was.

Interesting. Where is this chart from? Do you know the average years of playing experience for the sample size in each scoring bin?

[teamroper60]

My miss, which is way too often, is a slice with my driver.  Regardless, I set up with a closed stance and aim just right of the middle.  I'm not going to line up to play my miss.  The heck with my score.

Ok, but that is going to hold you back for quite a while...    I did that for a long time, while trying (hoping) to hit a draw.   It wasn't working for me.  If you are good with that, then go for it.  I'll opt to play my 5-10 yard fade.   Hogan, Nicklaus and Trevino played a fade.   Those guys seemed to do ok with that "miss"..

This is the priority, and when you get good mechanics, the hope is the slice will diminish.

Actually, my slice is usually about 5-10 yards. It has gone up to 20 or so, and that's where it gets dangerous around the boundary tee boxes. So, I quit using my real driver for a while in favor of the steel shafted one.

This may be a case of semantics here.   Some people call anything that moves left to right a slice and anything moving right to left a hook.   Maybe you are one of those....  I dunno, but if you mean 5-10 yards of total movement left to right, then you are talking about what I call a fade (the fade I am currently hitting, in fact).   Now, if you mean aiming off the left side of the fairway and ending up 5-10 yards off the right side, then yeah, that is a slice in my book and I wouldn't be satisfied to live with that much movement.