Amatuers NEVER hit enough club...

[neudi]

If i had to hit a small 4 iron or hard 5 iron, I'm hitting the 5 iron every time if there is trouble long and the 4 iron if there is trouble short, I don't mind being told that I under club a lot because when I'm shooting scratch/under par most rounds, I will accept it because it is part of my game.

[lovemylabs]

OMG! If we accepted reality we would all be taking up ping pong.

Amen!! reality= I stink for the most part. ask me= I'm right on Tiger's heels!

[lamebums]

I'm tempted to say that if all golfers accepted reality we'd pick a hobby that's just a little safer to our mental health, such as plucking quills from feral porcupines.

At any rate, unless there's trouble in front of the green I'd rather be short than 30 yards over into God-knows-what trouble on the other side.

[Bignose]

There is another aspect of this that needs to be mentioned, too. This is a game of confidence, and basically what the pros are telling us (with the take more club advice) is that we shouldn't be so confident. Yet, we should be confident. Confidence leads to making good shots.

Like with a lot of things, there is some kernel of truth to advice. A lot of amateurs overestimate the true distances of their swings. Elevation and wind changes aren't often taken into account properly. Amateurs do have more mishits that cost distance than the pros. And there are a lot of amateurs who do overswing.

But, if you aren't too guilty of the above stuff, and if you are standing over your 7 iron at a distance that a well-hit 7 iron would go, you should be thinking positive thoughts about how you're going to pure it and land it perfectly on the pin. You don't want to be standing over a 6 or 5 iron thinking, about a negative, about how you can mishit the ball. Part of it also is your brain knows that if you hit a pure 6 or 5 iron from that distance, you are going over the green -- your brain will try to slow down your club --- often with pretty disastrous results. Also, as has been pointed out above, it is much, much more often that there is trouble behind the green than in front. Not that there isn't trouble in front, but often long is significantly worse than short.

So, I think that being confident in your game and hitting the club that you think gives you the best chance is right. If you come up short, such is life. Learn from the mistake. Was it really that you needed more club, or was it a mishit? Do you need more range time, or was it a mistake based on elevation or wind or something like that? But, I think clubbing up just because you expect a mistake is self-defeating; I think that you should be hitting the club that with confidence and with a good shot gets the job done.

[packerfan1]

Think bout this one for a second...think about most golf holes that you play (especially par 3's, but really most holes)...where are most of the bunkers? In front and on the sides of the green, right? Where are the water hazards? Usually short or to the side of the hole, right?

How often do you see bunkers or water in back of the hole? If you overshoot the pin by 10 yards (one more club), generally the worst you would do is roll off the back of the green and/or be in the rough on most holes on most courses. If you are lucky, you might even hit someone on the tee box on the next hole :) Fall short by one club (10 yards) on most holes, and you are usually in the bunker or trouble a higher percentage of the time.

[golf_junkie27]

Think bout this one for a second...think about most golf holes that you play (especially par 3's, but really most holes)...where are most of the bunkers? In front and on the sides of the green, right? Where are the water hazards? Usually short or to the side of the hole, right?

This reminds of a story by Chi Chi Rodriguez. He was playing with a friend that always seemed to be in trouble: sandtraps, water, rough, etc. He asked his friend "What are you seeing?" His friend replied by saying that he saw water, sandtraps, rough, etc. He asked Chi Chi "What do you see?" and Chi Chi replied "I only see fairways and greens."

Point is, from my personal experience, whenever I saw a water hazard or traps, I would tighten up a little, squeeze the club a little tighter. The results were bad shots, short shots, tension filled shots. The type of shot that a pro might be inclined to say "You should have used more club" instead of "you should relax."

[iacas]

Wow, it appears that I was wrong. My own personal history of watching people play golf is wrong and guys who make their living knowing this stuff are totally wrong.

Well, that or we've got the greatest collections of "exceptions to the rule" ever concentrated in one location!

Kudos to you all!

[/sarcasm]

[Eore]

the whole club up thing is an exageration. the only time i see a god swing go short (most of the time) is when the person i'm playing with uses a laser range finder and it says 160 to the flag. they hit 7 or whatever, and hit in in the bunker-they forgot to actually LOOK AND SEE THAT THE PIN WAS 3 PACES FROM THE FRONT OF THE GREEN!!!! rangefinders are OVERRATED

thanks for listening to my rant!

[Bignose]

Wow, it appears that I was wrong. My own personal history of watching people play golf is wrong and guys who make their living knowing this stuff are

So, we should play to make a mistake (mishiting one or two extra clubs) rather than play to hit a good shot (hitting the club you know will do the job if you hit it right)? I just don't get that.

[giantbear]

I would guess that, for most amatuers, the pros are right. But remember, if you have a 15 or better index, you are better than most amatuers and like any general advice, it may not be applicable to you. I know a lot of the players i play with who are over a 15 tend to consider how far a perfectly hit shot will go for each club instead of how far it usually goes. If they hit an 8 150 on a perfectly hit shot but usually hit it 140, they grab the 8 instead of the 7. I try and play the swing i brought. Sometimes i am hitting it well and other times, i am off in my power and 10 yds short, so on those days, i grab some extra club.

[Three Putt]

It's true. Take an extra club...most all trouble on the jabronie courses we play are up front.

Or don't listen and don't cut those 4 strokes of your average round. Leave it short and bitch at yourself for hitting it "fat".

[Shindig]

So, we should play to make a mistake (mishiting one or two extra clubs) rather than play to hit a good shot (hitting the club you know will do the job if you hit it right)? I just don't get that.

This isn't what he said at all. You should play to the expected distance of the clubs, not the best distance you can get.

I've hit my 8-iron 130 yards in the absence of wind. It was a terrific shot - solid. I thought I had whiffed it, and if my eyes had been closed, I would've been sure I had. My usual distance with an 8-iron is 115 yards, and if I have 130 yards to the pin, I'm between my usual shots with a 7-iron and a 6-iron. Just because I once hit an 8-iron that distance doesn't mean I'm doing it every time. And if I hit my 6-iron (let's say the trouble is worse in front than behind) dead solid and accidentally send it 150 yards, that's unfortunate for this circumstance. It's not that I mis-hit my 6-iron and should play for it. It's that my usual distance is shorter than my best shot. And I should play for that, since that's what I'm usually going to get out of the club.

[golf_junkie27]

This isn't what he said at all. You should play to the expected distance of the clubs, not the best distance you can get.

Shin,

I agree with you, however, there is one thing that is not factored into the equation; reaction to obstacles. I'll give you an example. I absolutely get the yips whenever I see water. It's the major downfall to my game. No matter the club or distance, 60% to 70% of the time, I'll either go into the drink or absolutely hit an awful shot. The water is just embedded in my brain. There is a course that I play that has a 135 YD par 3. It's over water and the green has a severe slope towards the front. For me, a 135YDS is a maxed out PW. So, I'll use a 9I, knowing full well it's an easy shot, distance wise. However, I'll either put it in the drink or push it to the right. When I take my 8I, I do THE SAME EXACT THING. (I have to laugh just thinking about it) This has nothing to do with taking enough club. It's just a mental block. Granted, I don't disagree that many people think a maxed out distance shot is always going to occur. However, most good players will always choose the right club. Sometimes, it's just the mental part that fails them. Using one more club won't cure that.

[Crafty]

Next time tell them to read page 66 of Harvey Penick's Little Red Book.

what does it say? I guess I need to get off my lazy arse and go find a copy.

I believe it is the story about when an amateur asked Ben Hogan about backspin. I can't remember it perfectly, but it goes something like this:

An amateur asked Ben Hogan one day how he was able to put backspin on the ball. Ben Hogan replied asking, "When you hit a shot, do you usually come up short or long?" THe amateur replied, "I'm almost always short." Hogan snickered and said, "Well what the hell do you need backspin for!"

[Crafty]

This is, in my opinion, the reason why pros and announcers say what they do about club selection:

I CAN hit my 8 iron 165 if a pound it. However, my stock 8 iron swing goes 155. This is where some amateurs make mistakes in club selection. Laets face it, we don't pure every shot we hit and we can't expect to.

I think us amateurs don't necessarily play too little club. they just don't always differentiate between CAN and WILL MOST LIKELY DO.

[Bignose]

This isn't what he said at all. You should play to the expected distance of the clubs, not the best distance you can get.

I agree with that, and never advocated playing for you personal monster best shots. But, in your case, what happens when you mishit that 6 iron from 130 out? You know that the 6/7 iron is your usual 130 yard shot, but the pros would tell you to hit more club -- so you should pull a 5 or 4 iron. That's what I'm talking about.

I agree about playing to your ability, but I don't think that the pull more club idea is universal or good. I think that you should think positively and hit the club that a good shot (again, let me stress good, not best-ever, just good) will do the job. I don't like the idea of playing to expect mistakes.

[Bignose]

I believe it is the story about when an amateur asked Ben Hogan about backspin. I can't remember it perfectly, but it goes something like this:

Well, firstly, the page is about hitting a full approach shot. Kind of like what this thread is talking about (not backspin). Pennick's idea is that pulling the stronger club and swinging easier isn't a good idea. Like I said above, your muscles (I said brain, same idea) involuntarily tell you that you are using the wrong club, and you are likely to flinch and pull up out of the shot (I said decelerate, but again, same idea). Pennick does have a solution, and that is to grip down an inch or more on the stronger club, then take your full swing. Secondly, the amateur was pestering Tommy Armour about putting more backspin on the ball, not Hogan. (The story is on page 61, a few pages before the one in question.)

[rydaddy]

Thanks, Bignose, for cleairing that up. You beat me to it.

After catching up on some reading here, I have to say that the term amatuer is too broad - and there are too many factors going on when selecting a club. The better amatuers have a better idea of what club to use, duhhh!

It makes no sense to pick a club and then, by default, grab the next one up.