BGT Stability Putter Shafts Can Drop More Putts?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Pretzel said:

Yeah, I figured that it wouldn't really have much impact on the golf ball's trajectory just because clubface rotation through impact doesn't really even affect full swing shots. If it did, we'd all be swinging super low torque shafts (which, incidentally, I prefer simply because my swing isn't the most smooth and high torque shafts feel whippy to me) instead of the wide variety of torque ratings that golfers are fit into currently. We'd also all be trying to hit some kind of shot like a pull cut where you're attempting to hold off the natural rotation of the clubface through impact to minimize the effects of it.

It's also why I mentioned the gear effect, since I believed that to have a large impact on the line of the putt than the rotation of the face through impact, even if I did get it a little backwards in terms of whether it would have more or less time to act during a putt. It would be a bit interesting to see what kind of impact the gear effect has on initial starting line of a putt, since on full swings it seems to primarily affect spin (with the bulge and roll of a clubhead acting to help launch the ball opposite the direction that the gear effect spin will curve it). I know you'll lose a ton of distance on off-center putter hits, so to me it's never really mattered since I knew I'd be missing the putt anyways on distance if I missed the center of the face during the stroke.

To be clear, I think the "gear effect" is almost entirely about spin, not horizontal start direction. That, as you suggest, has more to do with bulge/roll (for horizontal and vertical gear effects).

But yes, toeing a ball with an iron (much lower MOI than a putter) doesn't change the start line by a bunch.

[Pretzel]

29 minutes ago, iacas said:

To be clear, I think the "gear effect" is almost entirely about spin, not horizontal start direction. That, as you suggest, has more to do with bulge/roll (for horizontal and vertical gear effects).

But yes, toeing a ball with an iron (much lower MOI than a putter) doesn't change the start line by a bunch.

Yup, that's what I was trying to say. The bulge and roll just change the starting line (by change the face angle depending on where you hit the ball on the face) just attempt to compensate for the gear effect spin as a result of off-center strikes. If you toe the ball the gear effect will cause spin that makes the ball draw (even if path and face angle are identical), but the bulge will create a face angle that is effectively more open and start the ball further to the right. Because of the gear effect you can hit a draw even the face open relative to the path (good example from Trackman: https://youtu.be/IVbhEKeXKrs?t=33)

I think the bigger effect of an off center strike during a putt is that it will reduce the distance due to the energy absorbed and effectively lost when the clubhead begins to twist. It's possible that the Stability Shaft could help this, but keeping your arms and wrists very rigid as well to take advantage of this effect (combined with the loss of feel) will likely have a larger negative impact on your distance control to begin with. Most of the twisting during an off center strike happens in your wrists and arms, not the shaft, so I picture this effect being heavily minimized or disappearing altogether when a normal putting stroke with a gentle grip and relaxed arms (for improved feel and distance control on center strikes) is used even with the Stability Shaft.

I think the net effect for a player on distance control would still be negative because of the changes made to take advantage of this possibility, but I can see how on a machine it could appear to have a positive effect on off-center hits and distance control. I'd be interested in seeing testing by BGT on off-center hits and total putt distance to see if my theory holds true, as well as seeing experimental data from actual golfers making off center strikes with the putter to see if distance would be less effected on an off center strike even if you used a normal swing.

To outline and summarize my position clearly:

Spoiler

The currently available data shows that the Stability Shaft will have either no impact or slight negative impact on starting line of a putt.

I have a theory that the distance control on off-center strikes could be improved by a minute amount by the Stability Shaft due to less energy loss from the shaft itself twisting. I also believe that this effect would be very minimal (possibly non-existent/too small to be measured) unless combined with either a perfectly rigid putting robot or an incredibly rigid putting stroke that would adversely affect the distance control and feel of the golfer making the putting stroke.

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Pretzel

[z1ggy16]

Not sure if I need to make a "introduction" post and I'm extremely sorry for necro'ing but I found this thread while doing a forum search for the stability shaft. I've read the whole thread. I recall seeing a few people ask for what is essentially scientific testing from unbiased 3rd party sources. I believe this has been done by MyG0lfSpy (not sure if I'll get banned for using their name... I know on other golf forums you can't even have the letters M-G and S in a row) somewhat recently.

IIRC, their data showed this shaft seemed to neither help nor hinder golfers, with maaaaybe a long term improvement on sg18 putting. Essentially, I read their test to say "if you're already a good putter, this will probably not help. If you're not a good putter AND you have $200 to burn, this *might* help you, over the course of many many rounds."

Again, apologies for the necro of this thread. Have any other users gotten their own data since the last post in 2018?

[Buckeyebowman]

On 11/1/2018 at 11:58 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Come on now! 
Next thing your are going to tell me is that the Hammer isn't really the world's longest driver. Or that isn't not really turning the golf world upside-down. 

Haw! My buddy was a sucker and bought one of those. After trying unsuccessfully to use it for half a season, he left it in the open bed of a pickup truck as we were leaving the course! 

And some outfit recently was advertising some new putter weighting or shafting idea, and for the life of me I can't remember who it was. It was supposed to "redistribute" the weight in the putter. I found a couple of them in a local golf shop and tried them. I didn't like them at all. Someone else mentioned re-bar. That's what these putters felt like, a length of re-bar in your hands! No feel at all! 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Buckeyebowman

[18thbunker]

Wowie.....what is next ? Low spin putter anyone ?