Ignorant

I've always thought it is the responsibility of players to repair divot holes. At least that is said in the Etiquette and that is the customary way to encourage golfers in my country. Maybe that is the reason I cannot recall the last time my ball was in a divot hole... Besides, the more staff you use to do those repairs the less they will be repaired by the players. Stop it and you'll see how people soon will pick up the correct manners.

What a bunch of witties...

Indeed. Well done, David!

While today's top professionals whine on every adversity there is on the course and want to have Lift, Clean & Place on every possible occasion... Luck plays its role in every single sports you can imagine. I do not hear tennis players whining about a bad bounce back in 2003 in the French Open in the 1st round match 2nd set 4th game 3rd point....

When the player dropped his ball the ball was in play. His intention was to drop it, that means he intended to put the ball in play.

Absolutely. The player had no intention to lift his ball prior to kicking it so he moved his ball in play (18-2a).

Ok. I asked because I read your post ' move loose impediments or (move) some other things' and was wondering what could be a 'thing' that cannot be moved apart from LI's.

What do you mean by 'some other things' ?

I believe it all comes down to your own feeling whether you had enough reason to think he is going to improve your line of putt and enough time to give him a warning. Should you feel you lacked one or the other you are off the hook.

Have you tried Amazon in UK?

The committee has the option to make a Local Rule about provisional ball fo a particular water hazard (see Appendix I, I) . Without that the player might have an option of balls to choose from and that is something very much contrary to the spirit of golf.

My point exactly. So it is not about splashes or rocks or WH margins, it is about the idea people at the scene are getting. If they feel 'known or virtually certain' then that's it. Once thay arrive at the WH the idea might change but that is irrelevant with the moment at the teebox. I find your wording misleading. IMO it is all about if a ball may be lost outside a WH . Whether it can be found or not has absolutely no bearing. (God I hate this quoting system on this forum... it really sucks....)

What if the player and his f-c's all say that yes, that ball dipped and is lost in the WH. After that consensus the player hits a provisional ball. What is the ruling?

Ummmm.... I wonder where to start. All qualifying scores for handicap purposes are always calculated as stableford points, even scratch competition scores. This is because a stableford score is always at least as good as a gross score minus handicap. However, a player is not required to calculate the S-points but this is done by the club. Once a player has scored 36 S-points he has played his handicap and nothing will change. If he plays more his handicap will be adjusted downwards according to certain parameters depending in which hcp-group a player belongs to. 1 plus – 4.4; deduction of 0.1 for each S-point exceeding 36 2 4.5 – 11.4; deduction of 0.2 for each S-point exceeding 36 3 11.5 – 18.4; deduction of 0.3 for each S-point exceeding 36 4 18.5 – 26.4; deduction of 0.4 for each S-point exceeding 36 5 26.5 – 36.0; deduction of 0.5 for each S-point exceeding 36 Once a player scores less than 36 points his hcp may change or not, depending on the group he belongs to. pls. refer to following table (1-6 are the groups). A score within the buffer zone will not affect the hcp. Handicap category Bufferzone (Stableford points) 18-hole scores 1 35 – 36; increase by 0.1 total 2 34 – 36; increase by 0.1 total 3 33 – 36; increase by 0.1 total 4 32 – 36; increase by 0.1 total 5 31 – 36; increase by 0.2 total (6 handicap will not increase) “Handicap categories” are divisions of exact handicaps according to the following table: Handicap Category Exact Handicap 1 plus – 4.4 2 4.5 – 11.4 3 11.5 – 18.4 4 18.5 – 26.4 5 26.5 – 36.0 (6 >36) A very brief description, detailed info found here: http://www.ega-golf.ch/030000/030100.asp

Not really in EGA. There is no need to allocate any net double bogeys, those holes just do not give any points, just as described in R32-1b. For handicap purposes there is no need to know whether the player on a par4 scored gross 11, net db or pickep up the ball after having missed his net bogey putt. He simply scores 0 points.

1) In Match Play you pick up only when the hole has been conceded or decided, nothing to do with stableford points (in EGA). 2) Difficult question. It varies so much but I would guess on the average not much more than 4, which is the required minimum. You must understand that in EGA system you need to announce your hcp round before it commences, i.e. you need to decide beforehand if you are going to post the score. This you need to either mention to your marker or record it in the hcp system (through internet). So people are quite lazy to do that and a very high percentage is not even interested in their hcp as they never compete. Stroke Play competition rounds are automatically qualifying rounds with certain limitations. Match Play is never a qualifying round in EGA.

Stableford is a form of stroke play. From EGA MANUAL: the form of play is either stroke play, Bogey/Par or Stableford, provided that Bogey/Par and Stableford are played with full handicap allowance (= 100% x playing handicap). Any number of scores but minimum 4 in order to maintain an active handicap.

Match play scores are not accepted at all, only stroke play.

Wow, am I glad to play in the EGA handicap system! No need to do higher maths 3 hours in a row after a round of golf...

What's the difference? The fact that they were arguing, disagreeing, having a different point of view or just did not know what they were supposed to do? In both scenarios the players could not identify their own ball .

Isn't it interesting how extremely obvious and undisbutable things get complicated when emotions are involved? I mean, if a ball is not identified it is not identified, and yet that is regarded unfair by those who do think with their heart instead of their.... Rule Book ;-)

Let me get this straight. You have been playing golf for a number of years and only once hit your ball into a water hazard (that is, a WH marked with yellow stakes)? Where have you been playing, in a desert??

And in such a case the only MO one may move is the flagstick.

Sure you do, you've read my earlier posts as I have yours. We both know the Rules to some extent.

Earlier you wrote: How does that fit to Tufts' 2nd principle?