evolvr is Coming - Online Swing Analysis

[Gioguy21]

Do we have an idea of the cost per month/year for a subscription?

[Zeph]

Once ready you will notice that the pricing is set so everyone can afford

Don't think they've come with a yearly cost yet.

"For swing analysis, the detail of HD is fine and 60 FPS is also fine. 300 FPS can be overkill, and the clarity gained by 720p video more than offsets the gains of 300 FPS over 60" I'm assuming although it isn't 300fps, the ZX1 will still be ok and more than good enough for this?

Don't see why it is overkill. If the target resolution is at 400x300 (or rather the other way around, as the picture usually is higher than it is wide when capturing the swing), 300FPS is good. Of course, most have 30-60 FPS cameras, which will do the job fine. Like I mentioned earlier, setup and lighting is important. Contrast is also a factor. If you have a bright background, wear darker clothes, preferably some with different color on pants and shirt. On a darker background, wear brighter clothes.

They will come out with example videos, guides to setting up the camera and the preferable camera specs. It'll be easier to wait with questions until it's released, as a lot of them will be answered there.

[david_wedzik]

I'm assuming although it isn't 300fps, the ZX1 will still be ok and more than good enough for this?

Yes...PLENTY OK...the camera you have will be perfectly fine.

Do we have an idea of the cost per month/year for a subscription?

If you choose the monthly subscription there is an account setup fee of $40 and it is $39/mo. after that for the month to month plan. That said...the first month is FREE when you sign up (this would be the way to go for people that want to try out evolvr without any commitment). We also have a yearly plan at $349/yr. (which comes out to only $29/mo.) but the $349 is a one-time upfront payment for each year. The setup fee is waived for the yearly plan.

Thanks for the questions! Dave

[david_wedzik]

Dave - Can you give me a range of what the SnT day clinics runs? I'd like to do either one of the full day clinics or evolvr and wanted to compare prices.

Hi Kevin,

A normal one day school here at Golf Evolution (in Erie) is $375 and a two day school is about $595 (can vary a bit depending on whether or not a round of golf is included). evolvr is $349/yr when paid yearly upfront or $429 paid monthly (since the first month is free). Thanks - talk to you soon! Dave

[luckyluke699]

Don't see why it is overkill. If the target resolution is at 400x300 (or rather the other way around, as the picture usually is higher than it is wide when capturing the swing), 300FPS is good. Of course, most have 30-60 FPS cameras, which will do the job fine. Like I mentioned earlier, setup and lighting is important. Contrast is also a factor. If you have a bright background, wear darker clothes, preferably some with different color on pants and shirt. On a darker background, wear brighter clothes.

That was a quote from iacas on another thread, where I asked the same question... and then plumped for a 60fps camera over a 300fps one based off the feedback... so just wanted to check that although this thread seems to contradict the other one, that the camera is still good enough for this. That was all...

[iacas]

That was a quote from iacas on another thread, where I asked the same question... and then plumped for a 60fps camera over a 300fps one based off the feedback... so just wanted to check that although this thread seems to contradict the other one, that the camera is still good enough for this. That was all...

That's because you're adding price in as a third component.

For video analysis, we can all agree that you want both high framerates and an acceptable resolution. But when you add in the fact that 300 FPS costs $250 or $300 but 60 is $100, that changes things from a buying perspective. In other words, the conversation here was primarily about which mode on a single camera to choose, not which camera to choose in general because I'm not going to tell someone how much money to spend. That's up to them. If they get the Casio, until you hit about 400 x 300 video resolution, take the framerate.

[luckyluke699]

Oops sorry, got the quote wrong in my post above above! :P

For swing analysis, the detail of HD is fine and 60 FPS is also fine. 300 FPS can be overkill, and the clarity gained by 720p video more than offsets the gains of 300 FPS over 60.

Anyway it's not an important matter. What I am wondering though Iacas is will this effectively terminate the need for the new swing check thread? or will I still be able to submit videos for analysis to that thread? I only ask as unfortunately I can't pay for the Evolvr service (wrong side of the pond - US Credit card needed I think you mentioned?) from the looks of it.

Cheers Luke

[Leftygolfer]

I know you have suggested in the past what cameras work the best. What camera would work and be the cheapest? I don't know alot about this (actually nothing). Besides the camera and tripod, will I need any software to download the videos to my computer?

[uttexas]

The kodak zi6 and zx1 are probably the best cheaper options (I searched froogle and ebay for prices). There are some cheaper cameras that do 60fps, but the reviews of the other cameras weren't as good. IMO, the kodak zx1 is the best video camera that can be found under $100 (it's more rugged than the zi6, but doesn't have the macro feature). The newer versions are the zi8 and zx3 ( a tad more expensive)

[Leftygolfer]

Thanks Uttexas. I looked at them, seems good for what I want. Comes with software and the tripod will be cheap.

[iacas]

What I am wondering though Iacas is will this effectively terminate the need for the new swing check thread?

No, but TMO seems to have basically "terminated" that one on his own. That, or nobody's submitted any swings to him lately... I don't know. You'd have to ask him.

http://thesandtrap.com/swing_check/ That's independent of evolvr.

I only ask as unfortunately I can't pay for the Evolvr service (wrong side of the pond - US Credit card needed I think you mentioned?) from the looks of it.

No, any credit card should work. I was wrong before. I thought someone (Dave?) had cleared that up? Sorry.

I know you have suggested in the past what cameras work the best. What camera would work and be the cheapest? I don't know alot about this (actually nothing). Besides the camera and tripod, will I need any software to download the videos to my computer?

Nope, no software. Every camera I've seen you hook up to your computer and copy the files over. Most of the ones come with software for Windows but I wouldn't even use that if you don't need it to actually get the camera to show up on your disk. You won't want to edit the videos or otherwise do anything to them. We want the raw video right off the camera. We'll just ask that you keep the video(s) short and don't include 30 seconds of your pre-shot routine, as that will just make it longer for you to upload.

FWIW, I prefer to use a card reader, personally. Much easier way to get the files off the camera. But I have a few things which share SD cards, so my card readers are multi-use. But if you just have one thing, the cameras all come with a way to hook them up to the computer... just hold off on installing software until you know you need it. 90% of the time or more, you won't, so save yourself the clutter.

The kodak zi6 and zx1 are probably the best cheaper options (I searched froogle and ebay for prices).

Yeah, the Kodaks are the base model. 60 FPS at their resolution is good. The Casios are better, but more costly. So the choice these days is pretty much one of those two, so far as I know.

[iacas]

BTW, here's a "sample analysis." It doesn't include the notes (those are on the sample analysis page at the site, when we launch).



As you can see, it's quite a bit better and much more in-depth than you'll find when people just say things on the forum. We use the V1 software to annotate and record a video that shows you your faults and gives you ideas on how to fix them.

[Zeph]

Looks good. The interesting part will be to see how changes can progress. A limit on the amount of videos is useful because you actually have to practice the changes for some time before uploading a new video. It's easy to just record a new one where you make the right move, you'll only cheat yourself that way.

Some drills would also be useful, or tips on how to go forth when making a change. Like using a mirror, obstacles, items under your armpit or on the ground. On the video example, maybe attaching something to the right thigh that extends out, which you want the hands to touch on the backswing. I don't like looking at a mirror or at the club when practicing takeaway, as it quickly can lead to a bad habit of trailing the club with the eyes. Finding the right feeling while still looking down is always a goal for me. Having someone watch and guide you is of course one option.

I would also like to suggest a 6 month program. A lot of people can only play golf half the year, without practice facilities during the winter. For them, a yearly subscription won't be needed, but it will still be cheaper than 6x monthly fees.

[iacas]

Looks good. The interesting part will be to see how changes can progress. A limit on the amount of videos is useful because you actually have to practice the changes for some time before uploading a new video. It's easy to just record a new one where you make the right move, you'll only cheat yourself that way.

Yeah, we don't see "four times a month" as a really big limit. Quite honestly, we think most people will upload videos once every few weeks. If people are uploading videos 4x a month, we're going to have to close the service because we'll end up making like $3/hour.

Or if someone uploads 52 videos on the yearly plan ($349) that's $6.70/video before any expenses at all. And given that it might take 30 minutes to do the responses... I think you see where things get hairy quickly. But on the other hand... most videos won't be quite as long as that one. That one was longer because it's "the first one." The next one might be to fine-tune the continued improvement in hand path, and then the next one after that might be to refine wrist position at the top of the backswing, and so on. So for every "major overhaul" type thing of a part of your golf swing, there will be several "tweaky" ones where you refine something. That's not to string you along, either - it's because Dave and I really believe you should lock something in before moving on. Not perfect, but well enough that you can start to play golf with the changes you've made and to work on something else while still keeping the first thing in mind. Frankly, $29 is a great deal even if you upload one video per month. It's the same as a box of medium quality golf balls, less than a round of golf most places, etc. We'll see, though.

Some drills would also be useful, or tips on how to go forth when making a change. Like using a mirror, obstacles, items under your armpit or on the ground.

Evolvr will have a "Library" and the notes section (which we obviously couldn't show you in a video) will point out drills you can do. The drills library is pretty small right now, but that's largely because it's winter out and we've not had a chance to build it up. We'll be building it up and it'll be in a constant state of growth for quite some time.

Drills won't necessarily always work, and the student (you in this example) has to take it upon himself to do some work on your own. After all, you're paying (say) $29 for one to four lessons, and even at the most expensive rate ($39) it's roughly 1/3 the cost of a full lesson with Dave, so part of that "I saved money!" is that you're working on your own. It'd be nearly impossible to give you every possible drill and know what works for you... plus the best drill is often "swing really, really slowly and do it right, then slowly build up your speed." That drill beats every other drill every time... you just can't often get people to do it. Heck, I never want to do it, but it works. We're stubborn people, us humans... :)

I would also like to suggest a 6 month program. A lot of people can only play golf half the year, without practice facilities during the winter. For them, a yearly subscription won't be needed, but it will still be cheaper than 6x monthly fees.

$349 for a year, $39/month for a "cancel at any time" plan. So six months is $234 - over a hundred bucks off the year-long plan.

We've got three price points, and one is a single lesson for $79 with no chance of incurring any recurring fees... I'm a big fan of keeping a very simple lineup of products. Three's a good number. You add a fourth and maybe a fifth and things get crowded. Besides, improvement is a year-round process. Golfers who only play six months out of the year, many of 'em have golf domes or can make swings at golf balls somewhere . In fact, winter (in a golf dome, etc.) is often the BEST time to make big changes because you're not trying to shoot a score. Who cares if you shank three in a row in a dome, or whiff, or whatever... Y'know?

[Neil]

I haven't seen an update on this in a while? Concept sounds really interesting; what is th latest re: launch?

[iacas]

I haven't seen an update on this in a while? Concept sounds really interesting; what is th latest re: launch?

Later today. We would have launched last week but we were in Scottsdale at a Stack and Tilt school with Mike and Andy.

The link will be made available to a few people. If you're interested in getting the link, PM me.

[Neil]

Later today. We would have launched last week but we were in Scottsdale at a Stack and Tilt school with Mike and Andy.

Thanks - have PM'd

[ApocG10]

Eric, do you have a website for your Golf Academy in Erie, PA?