• Announcements

    • iacas

      Create a Signature!   02/05/2016

      Everyone, go here and edit your signature this week: http://thesandtrap.com/settings/signature/.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
gas_can

The Myth of the Closed Face Driver

2 posts in this topic

Dave asked me a great question in a previous thread I thought might help everyone.

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthr...8499#post38499
gas_can,

Before I go further into exactly why exactly driver face angle is often a myth, there are two principles you should understand and accept. They are easy to explain in person, but difficult purely in words. Many people feel they are counterintuitive, but they are true, so please bear with me and accept them as dogma.

1. A closed face driver actually increases effective loft at impact (assuming you keep the face square). 2. An open face driver actually decreases the effective loft at impact (assuming you square the clubface). As Dave mentioned, most companies do produce a variety of face angles because of both manufacturing tolerances and clubhead design to help amateurs for a variety of reasons. However, testing has shown that even a moderately closed clubhead (1-3 degrees) will not have an adverse effect on face angle at impact for most players . Nick Price, a player who has made a career of moving the ball both ways plays all his woods with a two degree closed clubface and has shown no adverse affects from it. The big reason why most companies perfer to use a closed clubface is because it increases the effective loft of the driver face at impact. Just about all golfers these days need more loft, but refuse to get away from their 9.5 and 8.5 degree drivers despite lower spinning driver heads and golf balls. Manufacturers have decided to be proactive and give the customers what they need without telling them. Measure the loft on most off the rack drivers these days and you might be surprised at what they truly measure. A closed face is one way to do this without actually misleading the customer. There are a select few players (who mostly use a severe rotation of the forearms at impact like Vijay Singh) who can not play closed face drivers. These players require an open faced clubface so they can freely rotate their arms through impact without fear of delofting the clubface. Dave, it's entirely possible you might fall into this category. However, what I've found most often is that better players (who often fear the left miss) see a slightly closed face and they instinctively try to compensate holding off their release, suddenly their body tells them they are out of position and they end up over compensating and hitting a low liner OB left. One example is a customer who just ordered a superquad from me. When it came in, he was so excited he took it out to the course, and called me just before closing saying he wanted to send it back because the face was closed it was going left of left. I said, "Sure, but let's check the face angle tomorrow and see what we're working with." Sure enough, when I put it on the loft lie machine it measured a half degree open. No complaints from him since. That's an extreme case, but it happens more often than you might think. With better players especially who have the memories of a thousand bad hooks, when something looks like it's going to go left, more times than not it's going left. There are also other variables involved, hand positon at address for one. Keep you hands forward of the clubhead, and it looks a little open, put your hands behind it, and it looks a bit closed. Some drivers also have soles which are conducive to being closed, the superquad is definitely one. If you take your hand placement with the club resting on the ground, it might be resting in a fashion that is a bit closed. One huge factor which few people mention is paint. Tom Wishon did experiments where he repainted the same heads (all the square face angles) in various ways. His heads with paint breaks on the hosels all appeared to lay open to the majority of golfers, paint that extended slightly onto the face in the toe gave the appearance of a closed clubface. All in all, there are many variables that relate to face angle, it's not purely a cut and dry issue, and I hope this mini-opus has given you guys a little more insight into why manufacturers make face angles the way they do. I also neglected to mention heel weighting which is for the express purpose of helping close faces on metal woods, but that is another issue for another time. I will say for all the better players out there that truly want a square face angle (in appearance and measurement), look into Bridgestone metal woods. I have yet to have a Bridgestone wood come into the shop that hasn't been square to one degree open in terms of face angle and within a half degree of the stated loft. No other OEM comes close to replicating Bridgestone's attention to detail, although others like Cleveland are beginning to follow suit.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

Great post! Just 5 months ago, I didn't know the difference between an open, closed, or square face. I would just grip and rip. I used to lace my 4 wood down the fairway until I learned more about my golf clubs. I looked down at my 4 wood differently, and it was obviously pointing to to left. All I could think when addressing the ball was "snap hook". The result? A snap hook of course. Your post makes a lot of sense, and makes me realize how important the mental game is.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Golf Evolution
  • Posts

    • Looking for new irons - - - HELP!!
      Just bought new irons myself.  It's a process.  Not sure if you're a single-digit hdcp'er or a relative hack like me.  Ether way, here are some suggestions to get you moving in the right direction. 1. As example only, a link to Golf Digest 2016 GI Hot List clubs:  http://www.golfdigest.com/hot-list/golf-clubs/game-improvement-irons 2.  Determine what you expect to get from a new set of irons.  Straighter?  Higher flight? Distance? 3. Identify 3-5 iron models that you think fit your requirements 4. Go to a Golfsmith, Golf Galaxy or other location where you can try irons from each manufacturer, hit and evaluate results on launch monitor. 5. Go with the set that delivers the best results based on your swing. Other thoughts as I just went through the process: Get a thorough fitting.  There is a point at which hybrids might make more sense than longer irons.  My new set starts at 6-iron and include 4- and 5-hybrids on the longer side. Irons and hybrids are NOT the same brand, either. You should be able to order ONLY the clubs you want from reputable dealers. So many sets come 4-AW off the shelf.  That club lineup might not be best for you. A fitting to determine what club complement is best for you is what's most important before plunking down a lot of money. I don't like to be brand conscious when I go though a decision process like this.  Keep it fact-based and data driven and you'll arrive at the best option for you.  Launch monitors don't lie.  At least I believe they don't. You should go into a club fitting with a short list of irons you think might work for you. ASK the club fitter if there are other models he or she would recommend you try.  This should round out your 'possibles' to 5 or 6 at most. Be prepared to make a lot of swings. Bring a glove.  You'll need it. Good luck and keep us posted on your journey. dave
    • What did you buy on your last trip to the golf store?
      No, she doesn't want ME TO BUY new irons, SHE WANTS TO BUY ME new irons. She is probably thinking, hey if I buy him new irons maybe he will spend more time out golfing and give me more time to myself. There is a method to her madness.
    • Custom Headcovers?
      Custom embroidery would be an option. Your initials, a logo or image could be used for a set. Premium Head Covers are available. Caddy Daddy offers the Inferno, Lucky and High Roller Casino based Themed Driver Head Covers. Features include 40,000 stitch embroidery on synthetic leather fabric with inside padding and polyester ribbed sock. http://www.caddydaddygolf.com/driver-head-covers.htm
    • Using Game Golf to Analyze Gaps
      That might be the case. My 4 iron is a more game improvement iron. It's a cavity back versus a muscle back. Also, I do use it off the tee more than the 5 iron, so the lie is perfect.  Maybe my game is more suited for a more GI type iron in the long iron set. It's something to consider looking into.   
    • "The Putting Bible" by Dave Pelz
      The very first thing Dave Pelz says In his book----- after the acknowledgements is. " I want to start this book with a short explanation. Look closely at the title. Notice that  I don't claim this to be  "THE" putting bible. I call it Dave Pelz's Putting Bible because it truly is "my" bible on putting. It is a compendium of my research, my studies, my test results, my teaching philosophy, and my beliefs about the art and science of putting. It is my bible or if you prefer, my notebook or data log  book-into which I have transcribed my thoughts, interpretations of test results, observations, and theoretical work that have been instrumental in forming my understanding of putting. It is also from this work that I draw my philosophy for teaching the putting game in the Dave Pelz Scoring Game Schools".      As far as the 8 seconds is concerned, and with apologies to Mr. Pelz let me summarize on page 122 5.6 Two Types of Muscle Memory Ridding a bicycle is one type of memory (long term) you never really forget. Your mind remembers only the body's most recent sensations (short term memory), and these, too, fade by 30 percent every 8 seconds. True or not I will still take his word for it. As it was done as scientific research. "about as accurate as the story of Noah's Ark"...............don't know, can't say, wasn't there, but will say this. If a booming voice coming out of the sky tells me to build a boat....trust me, I'm building a boat!!        
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    No users celebrating today
  • Blog Entries