My Swing (WillM)

[mvmac]

Hey it works! Anyway, as I was saying worked a bit on pressure point #4 and it has helped tremendously. Now going to try and work on shoulder plane again. Think flat turn is making top of swing a bit laid off.

I'd focus more on "steepening" the hips. Notice how they shallow out on the backswing, pressure/weight is too far back into your right heel. Part of why they shallow is because you stick your butt out and have some arch in your lower back at address. Makes it harder to turn steep enough.

Compare your address to this guy, much "softer" looking back, no lower back arch. Will feel like you tailbone is "tucked" under you. Then on the backswing feel the right hip "rise", make it go "up".

I have a feel question for you. At the start of the downswing, you flatten the shaft in a similar manner to Ricky Fowler. What feeling do you have when you do this? Many of us struggle with too steep a shaft plane at A5. I have tried palmar flexion, but that doesn't help as much as I hoped.

I'm guessing it's just something he just does naturally. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by mvmac

[WillM]

I have a feel question for you. At the start of the downswing, you flatten the shaft in a similar manner to Ricky Fowler. What feeling do you have when you do this? Many of us struggle with too steep a shaft plane at A5. I have tried palmar flexion, but that doesn't help as much as I hoped.

Man I wish I could be of more help but I am not a feeling a thing... that is just something I have always done naturally. Like I literally don't feel it at all. Funny thing is, I don't do it in my practice swings.

I think I just became - when I was younger - so obsessed with getting my swing plane further in to out that I started flattening the shaft like that?

I'd focus more on "steepening" the hips. Notice how they shallow out on the backswing, pressure/weight is too far back into your right heel. Part of why they shallow is because you stick your butt out and have some arch in your lower back at address. Makes it harder to turn steep enough.

Compare your address to this guy, much "softer" looking back, no lower back arch. Will feel like you tailbone is "tucked" under you. Then on the backswing feel the right hip "rise", make it go "up".

I'm guessing it's just something he just does naturally. 

Haha funny you mention my posture... If you take a look at some of my older videos on here, I did have my tailbone tucked. The problem was if you drew a line from my butt to my heels it was straight up and down. You can see that Zach's butt is out past his heels at address and that is what I tried to fix first. Before I make any changes, explain to me a rounded back vs. a straight back? I have had both at setup and found more success with a straight back. Also there are players on the Tour with both rounded and straight backs at address... what gives? Some of the best ball strikers on tour (Adam Scott, Justin Rose, Oosty come to mind) all have a straight spine at address but then there is also Nicklaus and Bob Rock (off the top of my head) who had pretty rounded backs at address.

Just looked at your thread from the beginning. And Wow! You have such a nice swing and to see how much you've improved since the beginning is amazing. All the subtle swing changes really made a difference in the long run. 

Keep working hard on your game!! 

Just going back through the thread and somehow I missed this... Thank you!

Edited October 17, 2015 by WillM

[WillM]

@mvmac just re-read posture thread. I agree with everything there and upon re-evaluation I agree my back may be slightly, slightly arched... Regardless though, my question above stands. There are many players who seem to have a straighter back who are amazing ballstrikers. Is it just that I need to soften mine just a smidge?

[mvmac]

@mvmac just re-read posture thread. I agree with everything there and upon re-evaluation I agree my back may be slightly, slightly arched... Regardless though, my question above stands. There are many players who seem to have a straighter back who are amazing ballstrikers. Is it just that I need to soften mine just a smidge?

Most good players you'll see will have the roundness in the upper back and a neutral lower back. Having a straight back (upper to lower back) at address is pointless, it only makes the pivot stuff harder to accomplish.

I'm saying your need to turn your hips roughly on the inclination set at A1. Getting rid of the lower back arch will help you do that. I don't know how much you need to change it, yes "on paper" it's not a huge change but it may feel "big".

[WillM]

Most good players you'll see will have the roundness in the upper back and a neutral lower back. Having a straight back (upper to lower back) at address is pointless, it only makes the pivot stuff harder to accomplish.

I'm saying your need to turn your hips roughly on the inclination set at A1. Getting rid of the lower back arch will help you do that. I don't know how much you need to change it, yes "on paper" it's not a huge change but it may feel "big".

Okay I'll get to work... thanks!

[WillM]

So would you say try to blend these two postures?

[mvmac]

Second one is definitely better, watch the weight, little on your toes.

[WillM]

So the second, "better" one I posted is actually from July... Here is some video from today, it is a subtle change but I think it looks better... it was my best attempt at "blending" the two images from above. It has also helped me get my shoulders working in the right direction... at least for the first half of the takeaway, shoulders are still pulled a bit off plane at the very top.

[mvmac]

So the second, "better" one I posted is actually from July... Here is some video from today, it is a subtle change but I think it looks better... it was my best attempt at "blending" the two images from above. It has also helped me get my shoulders working in the right direction... at least for the first half of the takeaway, shoulders are still pulled a bit off plane at the very top.

Tailbone is too far back. I'd like to see you bend over less.

[WillM]

Tailbone is too far back. I'd like to see you bend over less.

Okay, why? I am just trying to learn... everyone has different opinions and as a golf nut I am trying to learn all of them. Dan Carraher told me you want to be able to draw a line along the back and along the shaft of the club and they should be about perpendicular. That makes sense to me and makes sense if you look at guys like Justin Rose and Robert Rock who I am trying to use most as models.

Also, are we talking a smidgen or a lot?

[iacas]

Tailbone is too far back. I'd like to see you bend over less.

And less flex in the knees.

Okay, why? I am just trying to learn... everyone has different opinions and as a golf nut I am trying to learn all of them.

Because with your hips rocked back like that with the butt out, it limits movement in certain ways.

Dan Carraher told me you want to be able to draw a line along the back and along the shaft of the club and they should be about perpendicular. That makes sense to me and makes sense if you look at guys like Justin Rose and Robert Rock who I am trying to use most as models.

[WillM]

And less flex in the knees.

Because with your hips rocked back like that with the butt out, it limits movement in certain ways.

Alright, hard to argue with that haha So I like to have a process I can go thru to arrive at my posture. For example the one I am now moving away from - left side above - I thought 1) belt and shaft parallel, bend from hips until shaft pointed at ball. 2) Add knee flex. 3) find neutral with back.

So now maybe follow that, just don't bend as far, less knee flex and feel a rounded back instead? I just need a kind of "process" I can follow to arrive at the correct posture... Thanks for the help.

Edited October 23, 2015 by WillM

[mvmac]

So now maybe follow that, just don't bend as far, less knee flex and feel a rounded back instead? I just need a kind of "process" I can follow to arrive at the correct posture... Thanks for the help.

Sounds like a good start. 

Just film yourself doing it and the feels that produce the correct picture are the right feels for you.

[WillM]

@mvmac taking a look at the good posture thread again... So the feeling is posterior tilt of the hips, and it will appear neutral on the video? That is what it seems based on the pictures. It feels to me as if I am hanging on all the back muscles instead of standing strong in my legs and it makes my back really sore when I have more posterior tilt. Hence why I changed my posture to begin with.

The key seems to be the "soft" or "rounded" upper back. I can only achieve this by feeling my shoulders move up slightly towards my ears and then forward as if I am trying to squeeze my pecs together... is that correct?

Also, I just got fitted for irons at 2 degrees flat, will this posture change affect that?

I will try to get to the range soon to film this... classes are crazy right now. Midterms 

Edited October 27, 2015 by WillM

[mvmac]

@mvmac taking a look at the good posture thread again... So the feeling is posterior tilt of the hips, and it will appear neutral on the video? That is what it seems based on the pictures. It feels to me as if I am hanging on all the back muscles instead of standing strong in my legs and it makes my back really sore when I have more posterior tilt. Hence why I changed my posture to begin with.

The key seems to be the "soft" or "rounded" upper back. I can only achieve this by feeling my shoulders move up slightly towards my ears and then forward as if I am trying to squeeze my pecs together... is that correct?

There isn't one feel, the right feel is the one that produces the correct pic. You'll probably need to feel a little posterior to achieve a neutral back.

Again, start by reducing the knee flex, reducing the amount you bend from the hips and let the head "hang".

[WillM]

So here is my trying to find a better posture. The posterior tilt made me feel like I was not using my legs at all and that I was putting a lot of strain on my back... but I am committed now. I made some swings with the older posture and they just felt strange. Somehow the new posture felt strangely comfortable, yet my back was sore after the session.

New posture has made my swing a lot longer, again.... Also my misses are all over the place. Some pull hooks, push fades, pull fades. Yikes.

Also, maybe still too hunched over? Just a little? It is better and my knees are less flexed. Not really getting the rounded upper back though.

Edited October 28, 2015 by iacas
embedded videos

[WillM]

Also @mvmac will this posture change affect the new set I just got fitted for? I haven't purchased them yet but I am thinking I might only want the irons 1^o flat considering the number of block fades I have hit with the new posture so far... or do you think it is just getting the timing of the swing down?

[mvmac]

 

Also, maybe still too hunched over? Just a little? It is better and my knees are less flexed. Not really getting the rounded upper back though.

Looks pretty darn good to me. Notice how the hips are steeper and the shaft isn't laid off. Pressure isn't all the way back into your right heel.

Also @mvmac will this posture change affect the new set I just got fitted for? I haven't purchased them yet but I am thinking I might only want the irons 1^o flat considering the number of block fades I have hit with the new posture so far... or do you think it is just getting the timing of the swing down?

I don't think so, lie angles should be fine. It's not like you had your hands super high or low before.

I'd give it a couple practice sessions, just give the body time to catch up.