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ON the downswing i have a tendancy to hit at the ball and try to force the club on a particular path like i am hitting the ball resulting in the clubhead coming to the ball from the outside and all kinds of problems occur.
i was practicing tonight and realized that if i free the tension so that i can FEEL THE CLUBHEAD swinging then the club hits the ball and the ball just takes off.
It almost feels like there is no effort to hit at the ball but instead as the club is swinging through the ball I am losing control of hitting it because the head is swinging freely.
IS THIS THE CORRECT FEELING?
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Yes.

The down swing plane is more steep and outside than the back swing plane. Even with this knowledge, you should give no attention to how your downswing plane happens during the swing. It doesn't help to feel it. Just initiate your hips, then swing your arms and shoulders at the ball as hard as you can.

If you are correct at the top of your back swing, and have a correct grip and stance and posture, then you will automatically get on the correct downswing plane.
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Yes.

wrong... he might have a 2 plane swing or changing the down swing into an outside-inside swing plane.

i have been having this very issue but hopefully i can get my downswing back to inside-out...

In my bag:
Driver: R9 TP Rombax Stiff
3 Wood: R9 TP 85g Stiff
3 hybrid: X
4-SW: X-20 Uniflex

SteelLW: Forged Chrome

Putter: White Hot XG #1

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The 2 plane swing is not correct. It's wrong because it requires manipulation of the hands and arms. Also the downswing should be hit from the inside out.

But my quote is wrong. If you have a correct grip, stance and posture, and waggle you don't need to think of anything... plane, hip or leg movement, impact position, etc... if you have those three critical fundamentals mastered it's impossible to play bad golf, because you will be using the correct muscles for the swing.
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But my quote is wrong. If you have a correct grip, stance and posture, and waggle you don't need to think of anything... plane, hip or leg movement, impact position, etc... if you have those three critical fundamentals mastered it's impossible to play bad golf, because you will be using the correct muscles for the swing.

i still don't believe its as easy as you say it is. if were that simple... we would be seeing a lot more mid to low handicappers... those are steps to get the correct swing down but that doesn't translate to "impossible to play bad golf".

it takes hard practice and discipline to get better at golf...

In my bag:
Driver: R9 TP Rombax Stiff
3 Wood: R9 TP 85g Stiff
3 hybrid: X
4-SW: X-20 Uniflex

SteelLW: Forged Chrome

Putter: White Hot XG #1

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I dunno, i really dont think about plane much, either. Ive ive done my job correctly setting myself through the backswing that shot will ususally have a good result. When i reach the top of my backswing, my head goes blank, TBH. I dont even remember striking most of the balls i hit when i play golf. Instinct tends to take over at some point.
THE WEAPONS CACHE..

Titleist 909 D2 9.5 Degree Driver| Titleist 906f4 13.5 degree 3-Wood | Titleist 909 17 & 21 degree hybrid | Titleist AP2 irons
Titleist Vokey Wedges - 52 & 58 | Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 Putter | ProV1 Ball
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i still don't believe its as easy as you say it is. if were that simple... we would be seeing a lot more mid to low handicappers... those are steps to get the correct swing down but that doesn't translate to "impossible to play bad golf".

It does take hard practice and discipline. One must apply themselves intelligently and patiently. But it really is that simple. With a correct grip, stance, and posture you will automatically bring the correct muscles into play. And a correct waggle is basically an abbreviation of your full swing (the full swing is just an extension of your waggle).

I've seen 4-5 videos posted on this site, and in each one of them there were very clear problems with posture and stance. People always follow up by making comments about the back swing and downswing... but if the poster would focus more on the grip and posture it would help him 100 times better. edit: to follow up, Hogan mentions this in 5 Lessons. You know how some days you "have it," and some days you don't? Hogan says if you check your grip, stance and posture, and waggle you will always feel like you "have it." Also, "impossible to play bad golf" is a stretch I realize now :P. It depends what you consider good or bad golf. When I nailed my grip, stance and posture, and waggle I was able to score in the high 80's, with no knowledge or attention put into the back swing or downswing.
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ON the downswing i have a tendancy to hit at the ball and try to force the club on a particular path like i am hitting the ball resulting in the clubhead coming to the ball from the outside and all kinds of problems occur.

First of all, I don't think you should ever literally lose control over the club you're swinging. That'd be just catastrophic.

I'm not sure about your swing, but the feeling you got there is pretty much what I call a good impact. One of the rules/fundamentals in golf swing is not having too much of tension. If I could scale 1-10 from being relaxed to the maxed tension, I'd say around 5-6 is a good point for the swing. Ever heard of the term, "Swing easy, hit hard"? Not trying to go out off topic, but if you were using blades (or blade-like irons) that feeling would be much sweeter. That's why blades still retain its strong presence for certain golfers.
What's in the bag:
Driver: r7 SuperQuad 10.5° ~ UST Proforce V2 65g Regular
Wood: 906F4 18.5° ~ Aldila VS Proto 80g Stiff
Irons: MP-60 3-PW ~ True Temper Tour Concept S3
Wedges: Vokey Oil Can 252.08, SM56.10 & SM60.08Putter: Marxman Mallet 33"
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Yes.

That's actually not true. Here's a look at backswing and downswing plane angles of some well known pros:

Freeing the tension is a good idea and what's probably happening is that the big muscles of the body are now moving the clubhead down instead of the small muscles like the hands and wrists. 3JACK
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The 2 plane swing is not correct. It's wrong because it requires manipulation of the hands and arms. Also the downswing should be hit from the inside out.

Not sure if you were trying to get at this but...

2 Plane swing, done correctly, actually doesn't require any more manipulation with the hands than a "one plane swing". Swing plane, for each golfer is different and is based on address posture and body proportions. Both "1 plane" and "2 plane", which are really just extreme ends of the swing plane, have the same downswing transition move and quite frankly, if you are trying to control your hands through the swing, you are swinging wrong. If there is one thing almost all of the great golfers have agreed upon (Moe Norman might disagree, but that's another topic) it is that there is no time in the swing to be "actively timing the hands". If you want any sort of good clubhead speed, learn to swing through the ball with your body motion, not cast your hands at it. You wouldn't try to time your hands to hit a baseball would you? No, you practice the swing motion, see the ball, and swing through. Effortless power.
Favorite Practice Course:
Z Boaz Municipal, Fort Worth <<< Ben Hogan grew up playing here!
--------------------------------------------------

In the bag: 983E 9.5*, Fuji Speeder S RPM LP, 4W, Neutral Bias STAFF Ci6 irons, S (going up for sale soon) Tom Watson PVD 08 Wedges (G.S,L)... and a 4...
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2 Plane swing, done correctly, actually doesn't require any more manipulation with the hands than a "one plane swing". Swing plane, for each golfer is different and is based on address posture and body proportions. Both "1 plane" and "2 plane", which are really just extreme ends of the swing plane, have the same downswing transition move and quite frankly, if you are trying to control your hands through the swing, you are swinging wrong.

I think Jim Hardy would disagree with you there, wouldn't he?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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The key is to pretend that you have no arm muscles. They should be totally relaxed and passive throughout the swing.

Your shoulders take the club back, then your hips take the club to the target.

The arm muscles can only get in the way of your swing.
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That's actually not true. Here's a look at backswing and downswing plane angles of some well known pros:

My bad, I actually meant to say it is

less steep than the back swing plane, and from the inside out. Thanks for correcting me
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I think Jim Hardy would disagree with you there, wouldn't he?

Probably would, judging from his article in Golf Digest 2 months ago.

Hardy now seems to advocate using one extreme or the other. When you do this, the compensations that must be made are consistent (one set of compensations for 2 plane, another for 1 plane). While this makes instruction easier, if you look back at the classic swings which revolved around momentum and swinging the club, not steering it to hit the ball, there really wasn't such a focus on swing plane. The swing was more functional than pretty. Some instructors who teach the classic momentum swing are even upset about current teaching of "designer" swings (they work ok, but more than anything just look pretty). New students are so concerned about positions and that nice athletic finish, that they forget the final goal is to get the ball to the target. This was the first thing my golf teacher drilled into my head... stop trying to make a nice finish position. That is the reward of good form and solid contact. Focus on the moment of truth, because your score is totally dependant on what that ball does, not how slick you look hitting it. All a matter of perspective. Everyone's swing is unique, though some share glaring similarities. Gotta find your own swing, and that takes time and experimentation.
Favorite Practice Course:
Z Boaz Municipal, Fort Worth <<< Ben Hogan grew up playing here!
--------------------------------------------------

In the bag: 983E 9.5*, Fuji Speeder S RPM LP, 4W, Neutral Bias STAFF Ci6 irons, S (going up for sale soon) Tom Watson PVD 08 Wedges (G.S,L)... and a 4...
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Note: This thread is 5760 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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