Average swing weight and length on tour

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

My understanding is that the swing weight of many great golfers clubs has always been higher than what we get off the rack.

A pro I know said he used to swing 120 MPH with a driver and hit the ball 300+. After he had the swing weight of his driver increased he could hit the same distances with a 105 club head speed.

Imagine driving a nail with a 16oz hammer and then with a 24oz hammer. The heavier hammer will drive the nail deeper with less effort. It is easier to swing more accurately when you slow it down and let the mass of the club work for you. When I had my clubs built the guy made them heavier and I noticed immediately how much easier I could swing and still produce a lot of spin. Off-the-rack irons now feel like a feather by comparison to my set.

SubPar

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

I don't think your hammer theory makes sense physics-wise. It makes sense in the accuracy department, but how easily a nail goes in (keeping accuracy constant) depends on the head weight and speed of the hit. Same speed with a heaver hammer head means more energy and momentum transfered to the nail. I could be wrong, but I don't think that the handle's weight has any significant effect on how the nail goes in. (It's there to be used as a lever.)

Swingweight is a function of grip weight, head weight, shaft weight, and shaft length. Shaft lenth has the greatest impact on the swingweight, while shaft weight has a very small effect on the SW. All swingweight is is a measure of the balance point of a club vs. the overall weight of it.

I think pros definately play heavier clubs. If they are playing DGX100s, I think those are heavier than most of the shafts that we play. My friend plays Titleist muscle backs with those shafts. His clubs are also an inch over standard. His clubs have a higher swingweight than my clubs.
The control factor is also an issue. Those guys hit the ball so damn far effortlessly that accuracy should be their major concern right now. It's probably easier to control distance with a heavier club as well.

I started a thread on the effects of swingweight. Everyone who responded said that up until a certain point, you will get the same distance, but gain control. I'm sure pros (or anyone else) could figure out the point where they'd have the best control without losing much distance.

I read or heard somewhere that pros actually play with shorter-than-standard length drivers. I'm not sure about the woods, though. The idea is that with a shorter shaft, their contact, control, and accuracy would go up, while their scores would drop. I know AK chokes down, but I think many other guys just get shorter shafts in the drivers.

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

A heavy hammer has a heavier handle and head than a lighter hammer. You would not put a handle on either a golf club or a hammer that was not balanced with the weight of the head. If you increase one, you increase the other. There may be slight variations depending up on the desired result, but, in general, do you think anyone would significantly increase the weight of the head and not also increase the relative weight of shaft and handle

The hammer analogy comes to me from an engineer who builds custom golf clubs and spins his own custom graphite shafts. I'm going on the assumption he knows some things I don't. But I have handled a few hammers and it makes sense to me.

SubPar

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

same with tennis, heavier rackets give more control, while lighter ones go for more power.

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

That's not true at all. Heavier rackets are much, much more powerful than light rackets when swing at the same speed.

Tennis-wise the way it goes is swingspeed and mass generates power. The more swing speed you have, the more power you have. The more mass behind the shot, the more power you have. Each person -- to maximize their power -- needs to swing the HEAVIEST racket they can that DOES NOT SLOW down their swing.

I'm new to golf, but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to tennis.

I just assume these same principles apply to golf. Someone correct me if I'm wrong in that aspect.

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

I also know what im talking about when it comes to tennis, and generally in the tennis world companies make heavier rackets for more control and lighter rackets for generating power...why?? Its because the people playing with heavier rackets(like the pros) dont need the light racket to generate the higher ss because they are already strong enough. The old ladies and men use the lighter rackets to gnerate higher ss and therefore more power. trust me, im pretty much obsessed with tennis/golf equiptment...and have the game to back it up.

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

It turns out that my friend's dad is a physicist...well he was and then he got bored of it. But in any case, he has a physics degree and understands some pretty complicated stuff (like relativity and quantum mechanics) so Newtonian mechanics are easy for him.

It turns out that the weight of a hammer's handle does not change the energy or momentum of the head given that the head weight and speed are constant. The energy transferred will also be the same if the material of the head is made from the exact same metal.
Basically if you buy two identical wooden handled hammers, drill out the handle of one. The weight of the hammer will be lower, but head weight will be constant. If you swing the hammers so that the speeds of the heads are identical, the nail will recieve the same amount of force and energy. There would be no difference.

So, if people could swing heavy clubs as fast as lighter clubs, the ball would travel the same distance.

I didn't ask him about tennis, so no help there guys.

Also, I don't think he plays golf, so he doesn't understand the feel concept behind this. However, if a PGA pro could swing a heavier club with more control than a lighter club at about the same speed, it would be beneficial to use a heavier club. Same thing goes for all of us regular guys.

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

You know there was a guy who was a summer intern at my club and i hit his blades(very heavy). I hit it very bad but hit it as far as my club when i hit it flush. I play blades to so almost no difference in forgiveness.

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

I guess I just didnt explain myself right, because that's exactly what I said.

When you say such a blanket statement like, "heavier rackets give more control, while lighter ones go for more power." Things are bound to be wrong.

I didn't say I disagreed with you, I said why that statement is not always right. On the other side of the argument, I heavier racket isn't gonna give a weak female more control than a lighter one JUST BECAUSE it's heavy.

The point I made (or meant to make) in my post is that, while true, there are certain situations where it is definitely false.

Re: Average swing weight and length on tour

I don't want to start an argument or disagreement, but physics provides one invaluable tool during impacts.

There is one classical law to recall... momentum is conserved before and after striking the ball. Momentum is mass times velocity. If you can swing a more massive club head at the same speed as a less massive one (and all other factors being equal) then the more massive club head would hit it further. Same is true of golf clubs and tennis racquets. The problem is getting all the components of momentum because the club head is not the only mass in a swing (you have shaft, arms, body, etc.) Also, the trampoline effects and/or string tension in tennis come into play, as does the response of the shaft (when it unloads, etc.) Also real people swing different masses at different speeds. This is a very complex subject. You can extrapolate and see that a golf club with a head only 10 percent as massive swung at the same speed as a normal club could not possibly hit a ball as far. The impact of a golf ball and club head are not elastic events, but momentum still is conserved. Technically, because the golf ball is not perfectly elastic, it actually heats up a fraction when you hit it.

Kinetic energy is not conserved, but momentum is: Ball plus club, golfer, etc., before impact = ball in motion plus club, golfer, etc., after impact. Problems are everywhere because a golf club and golfer have constantly changing frames of reference making both linear and angular momentum calculations very difficult, except for the struck ball. You can measure its various momenta after impact pretty well -- it moves and spins, and you know its mass. You cannot model a real golfer because to do so would require knowing everything going on, including the details of conversion of energy in muscles at all points of the swing, i.e., how the speed of the club is changing and its shaft is reacting to the golfer's energy source -- a hopelessly complex problem to solve completely.

The analogy about light and heavy objects swung at the same speed will generate the same force is totally incorrect. eg. If you swing a feather at 100 mph  and try to hit a golf ball it goes no where.

If you swing a 1 pound weight 100 mph then you will have muchhhhh more force.

 

Also feeling the club head  by making it heavier allows the body weight to be in sync with the club movement.

The distance a golfer hits the golf ball is based on his synchronization of the body weight and club head at impact.

 

If you hit with your hands only and no weight transfer, the ball will go rather short distance.If you get the right timing of body weight and the club head the ball will travel forever.

That is why some relative small people hit the ball a long way while some big people cannot get a lot of distance.

OK so I'm going to step in to the fray here a lil bit. Lets start by getting a common understanding of some of what we're talking about. The OP was talking about swing weight and swing weight is measure of tourque NOT at the club head  nor at the Center of mass of the club but at an arbirtary weight determined by some guy. Swingweight is the force required to over come the inertia of the COM of the entire club. if you increase the swing weight. you are moving the center of Mas of the entire club closer to the club head.  I think everyone would agree. 

Since golf and tennis is a sport where power delivered through kinetic sequencing. A club that is too light, will force a slower swing speed because you couldn't make contact, a club that is too heavy would slow swing speed because you couldn't make contact. When you increase the swing weight you increase the mass of the head of the hammer and provided that you can keep the club moving at same speed the ball will go FURTHER because it has more momentum  and move velocity. So if you can control a heavier club and hold all things equal you're gonna increase your distance.  

 

I recently moved my irons to D8 and I ca swing with more control and the same head speed and picked up 15 yards. 

 

100 pounds of cotton swung at 100 MPH isn't going to send the ball as far as 1 pound of steel swung at 100 MPH either.

 

There are a lot of factors to consider when you want to think about the weight of a club.

 

Obviously, the heavier a club the slower (with the same effort) you'll swing it. Solidity (of conrtact) matters too.

weight x speed = power  on tennis rq.  if you want power use less string tension that equals more stored energy  more control use more tension , lighter weight. on a club or racket helps those out that cannot control ( because of skill or strength ) the swing  ,  higher weight. in the same size transfers more stored energy - imho