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Would a new shaft for my driver help fix this?


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I was hoping someone could help educate me on the benefits/differences in different shafts, particularily for a driver.  I have decided to re-dedicate myself to golf this year after 12 years of playing 8-10 times per year, half of which were scrambles.  I have played about 20 rounds this year and have noticed some tendencies that I would like to address that I always wrote off to not playing enough in the past.

I have always been a reasonably long hitter, my swing speed is about 110 and I can carry a drive about 260 if I hit it well.  My concern is that I tend to have a very high ball flight that has a tendancy to balloon and does not get much roll.  Many times I can find the ball mark in the fairway within a couple of feet of where the ball comes to rest.  I will hit a few of them straight, but I generally get more high fades.  I have particular trouble driving into wind which can result in drives of 200 yrds or less due to the high trajectory.  I find myself teeing the ball much lower than most to try and combat this phenomenon, but there is a very fine line between low enough to get a good launch angle and so low that I loose a bunch of distance (220 yrds or so).

I currently have a 2006 model Nike SQ driver with 9.5 degrees of loft and a stiff shaft.  The shaft is the stock model that was on the driver from the store, the label reads "Diamana by Mitsubishi Rayon".  I purchased the driver in Feb, 2007 and utilized a fitting session from the Golf Galaxy that I purchased the driver from to select these specs.  At the time they tested me for X flex and decieded that S was a better fit.  I also asked about the 8.5 degree model (I have always had a high tragectory) but was told that very few get lofts that low.  I think I may have tested the lower loft, but don't recall all of the details.  I do know that I did try several differnet makes/models/ and variations therein to get to the driver I bought.

I recently test drove new drivers thinking that maybe I would hit the newer models better.  I found that I was getting very similar results from new drivers.  The salesman noted that I was getting excessive backspin on every model that I tried (approx. 4500) which he said was causing the high tragectory and fade tendancy.  This led me to believe that a new driver is not necessarily going to fix the problem.

I have read that one way to fix this would be to learn how to hit a draw.  I am considering this route, however I have notices a lot of discussion on this and other forums about the importance and benefits of having the right shaft for your clubs/driver.  I have no idea what a kickpoint is, or any of the other technical jargon that gets tossed around here but I have read enough to make me interested to learn about it.

If someone would be willing to give me the basics of shaft alternatives and an opinion if re-shafting would help me I would appreciate it.  Also, if someone were to be in the market for a new shaft where is the best place to find one?  I assume that there would be some sort of fitting process?  Who does installation?  Basically I am starting from square one, any help is appreciated.

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I reshafted my R11 driver and it has made a huge difference for me. I went with the Graffaloy Pro Launch Blue shaft, and my club maker had it cut down by about an inch and a half, he told me that the average length of a driver on tour was usually between 44-45 inches and my R11 came with a 46 inch shaft. I would find a golf pro or club maker that makes mods on clubs and have them help you make the right choice for you. I just called around to all of my local courses and asked them if they knew of anyone who would reshaft clubs. I ordered the shaft from golfsmith.com, and by the way am no way affiliated with them, just trying to help.

Taylormade R11 Driver

Taylormade Superfast 5W

Taylormade Superfast 2.0 #4 21* hybrid

Callaway Razr X #5 24* hybrid

Titleist CB 712 irons

Titleist Vokey 54* & 58* Wedges

Scotty Cameron California Sea Mist Del Mar

 

 

 

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A new shaft can make some difference in ball flight, but loft will make the biggest difference. In your situation, it depends on what the characteristics are of your current shaft. Shaft manufacturers will often make a cheaper version to be used as a driver's stock shaft, as opposed to an after market shaft. If yours is a high launch/high spin shaft, look for something that will reduce trajectory and spin. A few examples are Diamana Whiteboard, Matrix Ozik HD, Aldila NV, but there are lots out there. If you can demo a 9.5 driver with a low launch shaft, see if it produces the results you're looking for. A club fitter can help guide you through the process.
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I've had a shaft fit for my current driver, and the results were marginal but very positive.  For the type of change you a seeking, I don't think equipment is the immediate answer.

That amount of backspin (4500 rpm) from a 9.5/S driver is excessive.  Chances are your angle of attack into the ball is too steep. Given your high clubhead speed, this could easily result in high backspin and ballooning flight.  A lower lofted driver and low-launching shaft could fix it, but chances are it's not the right type of fix.

If you're serious about the game, take the time to see a professional in your area.  Working to improve your swing path, angle of attack and impact positions will improve your results with any driver in your hands.  It's not the sexiest answer, but it's probably the best use of $60.

In the Bag: TaylorMade R11 TP - TaylorMade R7 TP TS - Cleveland Halo - TM TP 2009 3-PW - Vokey SM 52 - Vokey SM 60 - Rife Barbados CS - ProV1x 


On the Computer:  Analyzr Pro 
 

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Thanks to everyone for the input.  To date teeing the ball lower has been the way that I approached this issue.  I tee the ball very low with the top of the ball just above the top of the head when I ground the club.  This does help to reduce the trajectory somewhat but I still tend to hit it high, or loose length hitting it too low on the face.

I think that there may be some merit to the comment that I am swinging too steeply.  My practice time is limited but I don't want to be chasing equipment if the real issue is the swing.  I have never used anything but off the shelf equipment and don't really have a good idea how much of a difference a non-stock shaft can make.

Any other thoughts?

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no a new shaft would not fix the problem.  The problem is your swing.  You are most likely swinging far too steeply and swinging out to in which is causing a big high fade. There is nothing wrong with your shaft, for the shaft to be the problem it would have to be too whippy to go high and if it was it would also go left which yours doesnt.  Whenever you do straightin out your swing and fix it you will then need to get fitted for a shaft again because then your numbers will be different but you wont probably benefit much more tbh than the shaft you already have. Teeing it lower doesnt fix it trying teeing it higher you are supposed to sweep a driver of a high tee.

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Changing the shaft on my driver fixed it instantly. I started out on a Cobra S9-1 10.5* regular flex as my first modern driver. However, I would hit the thing so high. I played on it for a while as I thought it was normal until I saw most others ball flights. I thought maybe I needed a lower degree and switched to a Cleveland DST Launcher 9.5* stiff shaft. My swing speed allows me to be on the low end of stiff or high end of regular. I hit it just as high as I did with my previous driver. This year I had a driver built that is similar to the Ping K15 that is 10.5*, regular flex shaft, and has a mid-low ball flight. Now I can really control my ball flight with no issues. I can tee it up a little more to get it up or tee it a bit lower to keep it low, or tee it to my normal hight and get a great ball flight. For me the shaft change was the key.

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Originally Posted by MGAD

... I have always been a reasonably long hitter, my swing speed is about 110 and I can carry a drive about 260 if I hit it well.  My concern is that I tend to have a very high ball flight that has a tendancy to balloon and does not get much roll. ...

I recently test drove new drivers thinking that maybe I would hit the newer models better.  I found that I was getting very similar results from new drivers. ..

I have read that one way to fix this would be to learn how to hit a draw....

I have no idea what a kickpoint is, or any of the other technical jargon that gets tossed around here but I have read enough to make me interested to learn about it. ...

We'll start at the end and work backward. Kickpoint (AKA flexpoint)  describes where along the shaft the most noticeable bend occurs during the swing. And, kickpoint is a bit tricky when you first learn about it:

A shaft with a low kickpoint - flexing down near the clubhead - tends to flip the ball up higher in the air. People with slower swingspeeds tend to get low KP shafts.

A shaft with a high kickpoint tends to launch the ball lower. Ads for high KP shafts talk about how they promote "boring (as in low) ball flight."

And, mid KP = medium launch.

A high KP generates lower launch angle, AND a shallower descent angle which increases your roll.

Should you hit a draw sometimes? Should you tee the ball lower (can't go too low, or you get no real launch). A draw is something you can produce with stance and set-up adjustments.  Also, stance and set-up adjustments can help control loft of your drives.

So... you might take a golf lesson on hitting the driver, and use the input to get a more proper shaft. Golf Galaxy or another shop with trained fitters can help you on this. Since you have rebuilt your swing strength with regular play, you may need an update on the actual driver.

Also, with a 17 HDCP, there may be other things in you swing you also need to work on.

Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
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Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
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Shaft flex stiff to extra stiff torque 3.0 loft 9 degrees. At that swing speed, demo a driverr that gets your flight down. You should be flying it as far or further with lower spin and hotter launch and more overall distance. If you can get the fade in the short stuff, roll with it. Taylormade r5 or r7 or titleist 983, 905 on ebay...

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With my 17 HDCP I have in fact identified a few places to concentrate on to try and improve my game, one of which is using course management to make better decisions about when to keep the driver in the bag.  Playing more rounds this summer I have started to become much more consistent with the driver (used to be very hot/cold) and can now feel what goes wrong when one gets away and make an adjustment on the next hole.

The main reason I would like to lower my trajectory is that with my high ball flight even a gentle fade will seem to keep drifting and drifting before it lands and end up in trouble on what felt like a  reasonably decent swing.

I am realistic with myself about the amount of time I have to practice and would currently like to focus most of that time on improving my short game from 100 yrds and in.  Learning to draw and improving the full swing is on the list of things that I plan to get to, but I don't want to overload myself with too many new concepts all at once.  I am hitting my driver better and more consistent now than I ever have before but find myself losing a few strokes a round to this drifting fade that I feel like would stay in the field of play better if there was more forward velocity instead of upward velocity.

I realize I may be looking for a magic pill here that may not be realistic and if that is the case I will continue to manage my current drive until I can work on my mechanics.  I don't want to invest a lot of money in a new shaft, but if I could get something for $60-$100 that would help lower my ball flight it might help get me through the next year or two when I can get to a point with the rest of the game that I can focus on a swing change.  Since my initial post I have been reading a ton on shafts and now feel like I understand the basics.  From what I have read I am curious if something like a Graffaloy Prolaunch Red or UST Proforce V2 would give me just enough help to keep one or two of those out of bounds balls in the rough and one or two of the rough balls into the fairway.

Again, I really appreciate the advice and I welcome additional thoughts, comments or expeiences.  If I do decide to make a change I will spend some time with a fitter and do my homework before implementing the plan.

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Originally Posted by MGAD

The main reason I would like to lower my trajectory is that with my high ball flight even a gentle fade will seem to keep drifting and drifting before it lands and end up in trouble on what felt like a  reasonably decent swing.



This is very unlikely to be a shaft problem.  Too stiff a shaft can cause misses to the right (low blocks, pushed and fades) but not high slices as you describe.  Good luck in your search for a shaft.

In the Bag: TaylorMade R11 TP - TaylorMade R7 TP TS - Cleveland Halo - TM TP 2009 3-PW - Vokey SM 52 - Vokey SM 60 - Rife Barbados CS - ProV1x 


On the Computer:  Analyzr Pro 
 

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I'm having the exact same issue with PING K15 10.5 R.....too high a ball flight. Which shaft's did you look at  and finally go with ?

I've asked PING online and they said Aldila EnFuego Serrano 60 (low-mid) will work just fine. I asked them about Aldila En Fuego Wasabi 60 (mid trajectory) but that is not available.

The other issue I see with K15 is that its 45.75 length. So, when I get it reshafted with the appropriate shaft, I intend the have it cut by 1.0 inch. These effin Drivers are growing out of control. When Avg Tour players play 44-44.5, why the heck are companies pushing down 45-46+ range on us ?

My SS is 100-105 range. Could have gone Stiff, but chose to play Regular.

Thanks

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I had the exact same problem a couple of years ago, and i upgraded to a G15 with a xflex shaft. It helped, but not all that much. I would buy a couple of lessons and learn to hit a draw...
And depending on how old you are you might want to get an xflex driver too. I was 17 when i had that problem and my SS was 110. I'm 18 now and my SS is 116. So my SS isnt going to change for a while so it was worth it for me. But if you are pushing 40 i would stick with the stiff because your SS is only going to get slower. Anyway, i hope this helps! Cheers

"Advertising is the art of convincing people to spend money they don't have for something they don't need." 
Will Rogers 

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I've been building clubs for myself and my friends for a number of years, the kickpoint, club loft and tee height all have influence on ball flight.

My experience is that a lot of the stock shafts in drivers are junk - I've changed a number of big brand shafts out for people with great results.

Take a look at the Graphalloy line, I've seen the high kickpoint Pro Launch red for $40 recently, great value.

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Quite the variety of responses here, I do appreciate everyone's time and input.  As a 35 year old it is always good to be reminded that my swing speed is only going to be going down from here.

Between the responses I got here and an overload of research other places over the last couple of days I did decide to take a chance and order a n ew Graffalloy Prolaunch Red (stiff) off of e-bay which I was able to get for $30 with shipping.  I figure it isn't going to hurt to try it and i won't be spending so much that I can't go back to what I currently have if I don't like it.  I am not expecting any miricles, but I didn't want to invest too much into an older driver and if this gets me through a year or two I will be happy.  I also have started to experiment with a couple of minor setup changes based on what I have read here and other places.  I am trying to tee the ball higher (to avoid hitting downward and promote an upward swing) and have started lifting the driver up off of the ground before I start my takeaway.

I should get the shaft sometime next week and hopefully get it installed and test drove by the week after that.  I will report back with the results.  Thanks again for the input.

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to the OP: one variable you nor anyone else has yet mentioned is what golf ball you're playing.  Some golf balls will have a lot more driver spin and worsen ballooning, esp for someone who has pretty high clubhead speed as you seem to.  You might want to experiment with a premium ball with lower driver spin, i.e. ProV1x and the like.

Driver: Cleveland Classic 270, 10.5*
Fairway Woods: Adams Speedline LP (3 & 5)
Hybrids: Wilson Staff Fybrids 21*, 24*, UST V2 stiff
Irons: Callaway X-20 Tour, 5-PW, Rifle Project-X (flighted) 6.0
Wedges: Cleveland CG15 DSG 52* & 58* +/- 56* Niblick

Putter: Yes! Amy

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