Jump to content
IGNORED

Too much spin off the driver....


Note: This thread is 3189 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I recently went to go get fitted for a driver, Ive been having trouble keeping the ball flight at a reasonable level (Too High). The numbers on the launch monitor weren't surprising, 3500 to 3800 of backspin. I realize that i swing pretty hard (118-124mph) and steep so getting my spin rates into the optimal zone (2500-3000) might be a stretch but I Would appreciate any suggestions on how to lower the back spin on my golf ball with the driver.

In the bag....

Driver-Titleist 910D2 8.5 diamana ahina Xstiff/ 3wood- Taylormade r9 tp 15degree motore f1 stiff/ 5wood- Titleist 910F 19degree diamana stiff/ 3i-pw- Nike forged pro combos DG x100s/ sw- 54degree titleist spin milled 2011 vokey cc/ lob- 60degree Ping tour S/ Putter- Odessey white hot tour #9.

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by THR3E

I recently went to go get fitted for a driver, Ive been having trouble keeping the ball flight at a reasonable level (Too High). The numbers on the launch monitor weren't surprising, 3500 to 3800 of backspin. I realize that i swing pretty hard (118-124mph) and steep so getting my spin rates into the optimal zone (2500-3000) might be a stretch but I Would appreciate any suggestions on how to lower the back spin on my golf ball with the driver.

Excessive back spin is the product of coming down too steeply into impact. Lessening the angle of approach will lesson the back spin you put on the ball.


Play the ball further forwards in your stance - in line with your left arm pit - and see how you get on. You may have to swing a bit more right of your target to avoid pulling the ball left, though, but you will soon get used to it.

There is no set ball position (we are all different) so you will have to experiment a little until you find the ball flight you are looking for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Spin Rate is generated primarily by Spin Loft and club speed. Spin Loft =Dynamic Loft-Attack Angle. The high spin rate is caused by a combination of two factors. If for example the Static Loft of your driver is 10 degrees and the Dynamic Loft (the loft of the club at impact) is 15 degrees you will generate a high Spin Loft. If you have a negative Attack Angle of say 3 degrees (hitting down) you will increase Spin Loft. In this example the Spin Rate would be 15 minus -3 or 18. An ideal Spin Rate is 10-12 depending on club speed.  With a driver shots that generate a high Launch Angle and high Spin Rates are usually caused by a high Dynamic Loft.  A shot that has a good Launch Angle of 12 to 14 degrees and a high Spin Rate is usually caused by a Negative Attack angle. Both of these issues can be corrected by changing the ball position and the way you deliver the club to the ball. The best tool to provide feedback is Trackman. A simple solution to fixing a high Dynamic Loft issue is to get a Driver with a very low Static Loft in the 5-7 degree range combined with a shaft that is suited to your swing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by burner

Excessive back spin is the product of coming down too steeply into impact. Lessening the angle of approach will lesson the back spin you put on the ball.

Play the ball further forwards in your stance - in line with your left arm pit - and see how you get on. You may have to swing a bit more right of your target to avoid pulling the ball left, though, but you will soon get used to it.

There is no set ball position (we are all different) so you will have to experiment a little until you find the ball flight you are looking for.


Don't listen to this man, you just need the right equipment. If you truly are swinging that hard and .06 then the last thing you need to be doing is changing or experimenting with your swing!

I am in the exact same boat except mine is 6800-7400...  And my swing speed is less that yours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by CuppedTin

Don't listen to this man, you just need the right equipment. If you truly are swinging that hard and .06 then the last thing you need to be doing is changing or experimenting with your swing!

I am in the exact same boat except mine is 6800-7400...  And my swing speed is less that yours.


And that is because your angle of attack into the ball is too steep also.

No amount of equipment changing will cure a bad swing - BUT a small adjustment in ball position (cost = $0) to shallow out the angle of attack (NOT A SWING CHANGE!) can work wonders.

If there is an equipment disparity, then it is in the shaft - namely, who is holding it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

Don't listen to this man, you just need the right equipment. If you truly are swinging that hard and .06 then the last thing you need to be doing is changing or experimenting with your swing!


Wrong. Or, more accurately, quite likely wrong.

Setup change or swing change. Likely the former. Possibly the latter.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades



Originally Posted by burner

And that is because your angle of attack into the ball is too steep also.

No amount of equipment changing will cure a bad swing - BUT a small adjustment in ball position (cost = $0) to shallow out the angle of attack (NOT A SWING CHANGE!) can work wonders.

If there is an equipment disparity, then it is in the shaft - namely, who is holding it.


You and Iacas are both wrong my man, if this guy is playing to a 0.6 then you might want to consider your own swing bad. And Iacas has just been out in the sun too long today I guess. Shaft kick point, tip stiffness and driver loft have everything to do with his problems. If he was a 12.3 handicap then I might think it could be in his swing.

I'm sure he did not get where he is by having a bad swing...

And you should be ashamed Iacas, you have seen my swing and you know that my angle of attack is fine!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

You and Iacas are both wrong my man, if this guy is playing to a 0.6 then you might want to consider your own swing bad. And Iacas has just been out in the sun too long today I guess.


Uh, he said he swings "steep." That's something he can adjust with his driver swing. Could be as simple as ball position as noted by the person you're calling wrong.

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

And you should be ashamed Iacas, you have seen my swing and you know that my angle of attack is fine!

Uh, keep believing that. I'm done helping you... I know that much. If you know as much as you seem to believe you do, then that won't matter at all. Good luck.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I wise man once said. Those that can't, teach! Keep teaching my man and let the players play. When the next great swing comes along I'll sit and watch you guys run to it... :-) Summary: S&T; components work, the S&T; swing doesn't...
Link to comment
Share on other sites


If you both look at changing his swing before you ever consider the equipment at his level of play than you are both being very foolish, that's all I'm saying.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Its not really changing a swing, and it might not be an angle of attack.

It could be ball position, but it could be the golf club having to much loft. It could also be the shaft as well. But it has been proven that the longest drivers of the golf ball have an angle of attack closer to 0 and going into positive. Bubba watson is one of the few who has a positive angle of attack with his driver. That doesn't effect his iron play, were he is one of the best with GIR's, and he takes a divot. So its not really a problem to adjust your swing to take the angle of attack off a bit.

But i would admit, i would check out the driver first, as well as the golf ball. If that doesn't help, then try ball position, and maybe adjusting the angle of the swing.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades



Originally Posted by CuppedTin

I wise man once said. Those that can't, teach!

Keep teaching my man and let the players play. When the next great swing comes along I'll sit and watch you guys run to it...

Summary:

S&T; components work, the S&T; swing doesn't...


Pretty ironic coming from a guy with his own thread about 7k RPM backspin off the driver.  Why be so rude man?  There is a ton of valid advise in this thread.

For what it's worth, I got down to a 3.1 index with an awful swing.  Changing ball position is something that a 0.6 index would likely do on many shots anyways given the desired result.

In the Bag: TaylorMade R11 TP - TaylorMade R7 TP TS - Cleveland Halo - TM TP 2009 3-PW - Vokey SM 52 - Vokey SM 60 - Rife Barbados CS - ProV1x 


On the Computer:  Analyzr Pro 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

I wise man once said. Those that can't, teach!

Uh, four shots a side and I'll whip you every time. The guy I work with played the Nationwide Tour and has qualified for the National Club Pro each of the past two years. He also just shot 65 to win a tournament by five yesterday. He's a damn fine instructor too.

What's your deal?

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

Keep teaching my man and let the players play. When the next great swing comes along I'll sit and watch you guys run to it...

  1. What's this got to do with the topic?
  2. What do you know about my ability to play?
  3. I'm not "running" to anything. If someone shows me something better, I'll change, but I've yet to find anything, and I'm actively looking, thinking, and investigating. Within the past year I've made changes in what I teach, and prefer.

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

S&T; components work, the S&T; swing doesn't...

That doesn't even make sense.

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

If you both look at changing his swing before you ever consider the equipment at his level of play than you are both being very foolish, that's all I'm saying.


Says the guy with an 8 handicap and 7200 RPM of spin off his driver? Yeah, okay, we're the ones who are "being very foolish."

Originally Posted by delav

For what it's worth, I got down to a 3.1 index with an awful swing.  Changing ball position is something that a 0.6 index would likely do on many shots anyways given the desired result.


Indeed. Ball position is one way to eliminate "steepness." A few other things at setup can change it too. You can have a different swing with the driver. Same overall principles, but some little changes are allowed. The ball's on a tee, after all.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Sadly we got some sort of S&T; argument on what I consider to be a great topic. I went for a trackman fitting recently and thought that I was having a problem with my driver having too much backspin because my ball would spin like a wedge on the fairway. I found that I was -4 for my angle of attack. I changed my set-up a bit, not my swing, just my set-up and I was 0 to +2. Massive distance gain. 20 yards and all my friends are looking at my driver thinking I have changed the shaft or something. Same driver.

So in conclusion. I suggest a set-up change to hit up on the ball and the launch angle will increase and the spin will come down.

Michael

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

Originally Posted by mchepp

So in conclusion. I suggest a set-up change to hit up on the ball and the launch angle will increase and the spin will come down.


I agree. It's possible the swing may need a tweak too, but again, it's most likely a setup issue.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades



Originally Posted by delav

Pretty ironic coming from a guy with his own thread about 7k RPM backspin off the driver.  Why be so rude man?  There is a ton of valid advise in this thread.

For what it's worth, I got down to a 3.1 index with an awful swing.  Changing ball position is something that a 0.6 index would likely do on many shots anyways given the desired result.


There is tons of great advise, and the majority of it comes from Iacas... But sometimes I just like to get Iacas going, he says he is threw helping me but it's not in his blood to give up...

Anyway I changed today to a Titleist 907 D2 with a Aldila NV 65X and it brought it down to 4100. But I have been looking into the AOA that Iacas speaks of and learning to get the rear shoulder more vertical on the down swing and changing the ball position, it seems it does help... hmmm, who knew!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Thank you for all the help and the great read haha. I had no Idea Golfers are that strong minded on helping someone they dont even know!

Again thanks for everything, I freakin love this site.

In the bag....

Driver-Titleist 910D2 8.5 diamana ahina Xstiff/ 3wood- Taylormade r9 tp 15degree motore f1 stiff/ 5wood- Titleist 910F 19degree diamana stiff/ 3i-pw- Nike forged pro combos DG x100s/ sw- 54degree titleist spin milled 2011 vokey cc/ lob- 60degree Ping tour S/ Putter- Odessey white hot tour #9.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Thank you for all the help and the great read haha. I had no Idea Golfers are that strong minded on helping someone they dont even know!

Again thanks for everything, I freakin love this site.

So how are you hitting it now? What adjustments worked and what did not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 3189 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • 2 rounds this weekend, one at my home course and another course that I know well.   Played well for 3 of the 4 nines.    Ended up with an 80 and an 88.  Breaking it down by 9, it was 38, 42, 41, and a tough 47 where I somehow ended up with chipping/pitching shanks where I dropped at least 6 strokes on the last 6 holes.
    • Yikes, how time flies. Here we are, almost ten years later. After prioritizing family life and other things for a long time, I'm finally ready to play more golf. Grip: I came across some topics on grip and think my grip has been a bit too palmy, especially the left hand. I'm trying to get it more in the fingers and less diagonal. Setup: After a few weeks of playing, this realization came today after watching one of Erik's Covid videos. I've been standing too far from the ball, and that messes up so much. Moved closer on a short practice session and six holes today, and it felt great. It also felt familiar, so I've been there before. I went from chunking the bejesus out the wedges to much better contact. I love changes that involves no moving parts. Just a small correction on the setup and I'm hitting it better and is better suited for working on changes. I'm a few years late, but the Covid series has been very useful to get small details sorted. I've also had to revise ball position. The goal now is back of ball in the middle of the stance as the farthest back with wedges, and progressively moving forward the longer the clubs get. Haven't hit the driver yet, but inside left foot or at the toe I suppose. Full swing: It's not terrible. I noticed my hands were too low, so got that to work on. Weight forward. More of the same stuff from earlier days. Swing path is now out-in and I want the push-draw back. When I get some videos it'll be easier to tell. I've also had this idea that my tempo or flow/rhythm could improve. It's always felt rushed around the end of the backswing into the transition, where things don't line up as they should. A short pause as things settle before starting the downswing. Some lessons might be in order. Chipping and pitching: A 12-hole round this week demonstrated a severe need to practice, but also to figure out what the heck I’m trying to do. I stood over the ball with no idea of what I wanted to achieve. On a four meter chip! I was trying the locked wrists technique, which did not work at all. As usual when I need information, I look for something Erik has posted. I’ve seen the Quickie Pitching Video before, but if I got it back then, I’ve forgotten. After reviewing that topic, some other topic about chipping and most importantly, the videos on chip/pitch from his Covid series, I felt like I understood the concept. I love the idea of separating those two by what you are trying to achieve, not by distance or ball flight. With one method you use the leading edge to hit the ball first. With the other, you use the sole to slide it under the ball. I was surprised he said that he went for the pitch 90% of the time while playing. I’ve always been scared of that shot and been thinking I have to hit the ball first. Trying to slide the club under usually ended with a chunked or skulled shot. After practicing in the yard the last days I get it, and see why the pitching motion is more forgiving. It’s astounding how easy the concept and motion is. Kudos to Erik, David and anyone else involved for being an excellent students of the game and teachers. With those two videos, my short game improved leaps and bounds, without even practicing. Just getting the setup right and knowing what motions you are trying to do is a big part of improving. Soft hands and floaty swings feels so much better than a rigid “hinge and hold”, trying to fight gravity and momentum by squeezing the life out of the grip. At least how I took to understand the “hold” part. I also think the chipping motion will help in the full swing. Keeping pressure on the trigger finger to ensure the hands are leading the clubhead and not throwing it at the ball. I've also tried looking in front of the ball at times when chipping, which helps. That's something I've been doing on full swings for a long time, and can make a big difference on the ball flight. Question @iacas: You say in the videos that you want the ball somewhere near the middle of your stance, and that for pitching it's the same. On the videos you got a fairly narrow stance, where inside of the left foot is almost middle of the stance, but the ball looks more inside the left foot than middle of the stance. Is that caused by the filming angle or is the ball more towards the inside of the foot? I often hit chips and pitches from uphill and downhill lies, where a narrow stance would have me fall over. What is your thought process and setup for those shots? The lowpoint follows the upper body, around left armpit IIRC, so a ball position relative to the feet may not be in the same spot relative to the upper body with a wider stance. Practice: I've set up my nets at an indoors location where I can practice at home. I did a quick search on launch monitors (LM), but haven't decided on anything yet. We're probably buying a house in this area in the near future, so I may hold off a purchase until I see what I can get going there. At some point I'd love to get a proper setup with a LM that can be used as a simulator. Outdoors golf is not an option 4-6 months a year here, so having an indoors option would be great. That would also be a place to use the longer clubs. My nearest course is a shorter six hole course where I don't use anything longer than a 21º utility iron. To play longer 18 hole courses I have to drive 1-1.5 hours each way, which I will do now and then, but not regularly. The LM market has changed a lot since Trackman arrived, and more people are buying them for personal use, but it's still need to spend a lot of money for a decent one that can fi. track club path. The Mevo at £305 could perhaps be something to consider. Maybe they have lowered the price to get out units before a new model is launched? It is almost six years old, though perhaps modified since then. It's got limited data and obviously isn't an option as a simulator, but could provide some data when hitting into a net. I'd have to read more about it first. It has to be good enough to be useful for indoors practice. As long as I frequently hit balls on the range or course, I'll get feedback on any changes there.
    • I'm pretty good at picking targets with mid/long irons in hand, but yes lately I have been getting more aggressive than I should be, especially from 100-150. The 50-100 deficiency is mainly distance control, working on that mechanically with Evolvr, but the 100-150 is definitely a result of poor targets.  6,7,8 iron in my hand I have no problem aiming away from trouble/the flag, hitting a very committed shot to my target, but give me PW, GW, and some reason I think I need to go right at it (even though I know I shouldn't). Like here from my last round. 175 left on a short par 5 to a back right flag. Water short right and bunker long. Perfectly fine lie in sparse rough, between the jumper and downwind playing for about 10yds of help. I knew to not aim at the flag here, aimed 40 feet left of it, hit my 165 shot exactly where I was looking, easy 2 putt birdie.   But then there's this one. I had 120 left from the fairway to a semi-tucked front left flag. Not a ton of trouble around the green but the left and back rough does fall off steeper than short/right rough. For some reason I aimed right at this flag with my 120yd shot, hit it the exact proper distance but pulled it 5yds left and had a tough short sided chip. Did all I could to chip it to 8 feet and missed the putt for a bad bogey. Had I aimed directly at the middle of the green maybe 5yds right of the flag, a perfectly straight shot leaves me 20 feet tops for birdie and that same pulled shot that I hit would have left me very close to the hole.    So yeah I think the 50-100 is distance control and the 100-150 is absolutely picking better targets. I have good feels and am strong with distance control on those I just need to allow for a bigger dispersion.    This view is helpful. For the Under 25yds my proximity is almost double from the rough vs the fairway which reinforces that biggest weakness right now being inside 25yds from the rough. But then interestingly enough in the 25-50yds I'm almost equal proximity from fairway and rough, so it looks like I need to work on under 25yds from the rough and then 25-50 from the fairway. The bunker categories are only 1 attempt each so not worried about those.   Thanks as always for the insight, it's been helpful. I'm really liking ShotScope so far.
    • Wordle 1,053 4/6 🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨 🟨🟨⬜🟨⬜ 🟨⬜🟩⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Yea it is. A gave my brother a set of cobra irons at least a decade old and he walked away with 29 dollars worth of skin money the other day. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...