Offset irons make my slice....worse?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny 

Strange experience: I just retired my old GI irons (heavily offset) and replaced them with a new set (also GI irons, but with minimal offset).

 

Here's where it got weird. I battle a slice. I've never successfully overcome it, apart from a couple of seasons many years ago when a pro taught me to break my hands through the ball and my h'cap threatened to plummet into the single figures. Anyway, I gave up golf for a decade for various reasons, took it up again a couple of years ago...along with the slice. I've never had the time (or money for lessons) to really get rid of the slice properly since I resumed playing, so I do what I know you never should do, and set up for a slight draw with a somewhat closed club-face at address, and reduce the slice to a manageable fade.

 

At least that's what I was doing with my old GI (offset) irons. I tried my new (minimal offset) irons at the range this weekend, and noticed something strange - setting up for a draw, with a closed club-face, produced a slight draw. Squaring the club-face at address produced a straight shot, or sometimes just a slight fade, but it never produced a real slice. As it happened, I had my old (offset) 5 iron in the car. Dragged it out, set up square, swung....watched the ball rocket to the far right-hand side of the range and out of sight - a true hacker's slice.

 

I guess there are other factors at work here - weighting in the club affecting my swing, etc, along with modern GI iron technology versus 1990s GI iron technology. But why an offset iron encourages me to slice whereas a non-offset iron doesn't, I can't fathom....

 

Incidentally, my new (non-offset) irons are Tour Edge Exotics, XCG-3. I picked up a new-old-stock set on ebay for a song, really. So far, I'm loving the lack of offset (and Tour Edge's product, generally).

GI irons with a lot of offset seem to have the hosel protruding out so far. How do people not shank them? Oh yeah, they swing over the top and hit the ball with a glancing blow sending it peeling off to the right. At least that's how it went down with me. Slight offset, like older Mizuno blades, werer okay for some reason.

I noticed the same thing when I tested Mizuno blades (which I hope to buy sometime in the near future). My natural ball flight with the trusty Eye 2's is a 5-10 yard fade, but it turned into a draw when I hit the blades. I went into the store expecting to be slicing and really needing to rotate my hands through, but was pleasantly surprised. The fitter's best guess was that it was how the offset looked, and it caused my swing to change enough to turn a fade into a draw. I'd believe that, and it wasn't the machine considering that I compared it to my current clubs without any adjustments to the system.

Think about it for a second. If the head is off-set(back further), it takes a fraction more time for you hit the ball. If you are opening the club head at impact and it takes you longer to impact the ball, your club will be MORE open when it hits the ball, hence the slice.

Gotta stop to think about what is going on.

Rotate your left hand to the right a little when you grip the club. Get back to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Malay 

Think about it for a second. If the head is off-set(back further), it takes a fraction more time for you hit the ball. If you are opening the club head at impact and it takes you longer to impact the ball, your club will be MORE open when it hits the ball, hence the slice.

 

Gotta stop to think about what is going on.

 

Rotate your left hand to the right a little when you grip the club. Get back to me.

That makes no sense whatsoever.  OPENING the club at impact?  Really?  The problem isnt that people are opening the club at impact, its that they dont close it enough.  Thats part of what offset does: gives you a fraction of a second more to close the face.

Id love to see some video of people OPENING the face through impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer 

That makes no sense whatsoever.  OPENING the club at impact?  Really?  The problem isnt that people are opening the club at impact, its that they dont close it enough.  Thats part of what offset does: gives you a fraction of a second more to close the face.

Id love to see some video of people OPENING the face through impact.

I used to open the clubhead at impact. It happens when you have too strong of a grip, and you end up closing it on the way back and opening it back to square on the way through. I've fixed this, but offset irons do make that worse. However, whenever I start to see 4 knuckles on my left hand at address, I know it's just waiting to happen again(I normally have a fairly strong grip anyways). It happens if you have a clubface that points to the sky - or worse - at the top, provided that the person has a normal swing except for the wrist rotation at impact. In this scenario, you can either choose to hit the ball with a fairly closed clubface, or you can rotate it open to square through impact. In that case, the offeset will give you more time to open the face than an iron without it. However, it could also be purely mental (like it is for me) if he doesn't have a swing like that. I apologize if this was hard to visualize, but to understand it you have to just try to swing from the top with a fairly to very closed clubface, and I guarantee that you'll end up opening the face through impact unless you do something odd in the downswing.

Its always baffled me ... but your thread may actually explain it --->  My driver, woods and hybrids always fade slightly.    My irons always draw slightly.    I play 2 year old Taylor Made Burner PLUS irons - they're cavity backed game improvement clubs, probably of the offset genre.    The offset would likely explain the draw I consistently see with the irons, yes ? (when everything else fades)

Since you have been away from the game awhile, you might take a tune-up lesson. A pro could tell you more in 5 minutes than we can in a week of e-mails. I suspect your swing motion is a major contributor to your slice.

You might also check your alignment using the railroad tracks method, shown below. (Note: diagram assumes left-handed golfer). If you are properly aligned, your toe line (left) should be parallel to your swingline. and your swingline should lead into the target (gold flag). Many struggling golfers line up with their toe line pointing to the target (solid red arrow), and then miss their shots to the right (dashed red arrow). 

correction: Diagram above assumes a Right-Handed Golfer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer 

That makes no sense whatsoever.  OPENING the club at impact?  Really?  The problem isnt that people are opening the club at impact, its that they dont close it enough.  Thats part of what offset does: gives you a fraction of a second more to close the face.

Id love to see some video of people OPENING the face through impact.

It makes perfect sense IF you are opening the face when in the hitting zone. I didn't say EVERYONE does that. Is said IF you are opening at impact. Does that make sense now?

Opening at impact causes a fade, closing causes a draw. You don't work the ball well, do you?

Note: My point about the left hand was for a right-handed player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Malay 

It makes perfect sense IF you are opening the face when in the hitting zone. I didn't say EVERYONE does that. Is said IF you are opening at impact. Does that make sense now?

Opening at impact causes a fade, closing causes a draw. You don't work the ball well, do you?

 

Note: My point about the left hand was for a right-handed player.

Still doesnt make sense because no one opens the face at impact.  Show me a single video of a golfer OPENING the face at impact. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer 

Still doesnt make sense because no one opens the face at impact.  Show me a single video of a golfer OPENING the face at impact. 

Did you even read my post that describes exactly how you do it, and saying that I did it myself? Did you try what I asked you to so you could see that it is possible?

at impact club face determines where the ball starts, swing path determines how you work the ball.  At slightly open club face compared to swing path will produce a draw......a ball doesnt have side spin, it has a spin axis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScfdRookie 

at impact club face determines where the ball starts, swing path determines how you work the ball.  At slightly open club face compared to swing path will produce a draw......a ball doesnt have side spin, it has a spin axis.

I believe you mean a clubface open to the swing path will create a fade. A closed clubface (relative to the swing path) at impact creates a draw.

You can't get off-180 degree spin without imparting side spin on the ball.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScfdRookie 

No, I meant what I said. People's knowledge on ball flight is often misunderstood. A ball does not have "side spin" it has spin axis which is tilted by swing path. Much like an NFL kicker, he does not "close" his foot when kicking the ball and hitting those beautiful draws!

I certainly misunderstand my knowlege on ball flight. On the course an open face compared to swing path rarely if ever produces a beautiful draw.