Help Me Identify This Putter: SE Red Zone

[Deep Putts]

Can anyone help identify this putter? Thank you. 😀

[leftybutnotPM]

You have identified it very clearly with your photos. What do you want to know?

It is an extremely cheap, cast putter based loosely on a Ping Anser. It has a milled face.

Edited August 18, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[Deep Putts]

Hoping to find out more information about this brand, and this exact putter specifically. Neither have been identified as of yet.

Typically they don't patent extremely cheap putters and sell them with Winn Pistol grips, but you may be correct. Cheers.

[leftybutnotPM]

Just now, Deep Putts said:

Hoping to find out more information about this brand, and this exact putter specifically. Neither have been identified as of yet.

Typically they don't patent extremely cheap putters and sell them with Winn Pistol grips, but you may be correct. Cheers.

I can assure you that this is an extremely cheap putter with no history, heritage or value of any type. Sorry.

 

[Deep Putts]

I'd love to hear from some others. Cheers Lefty.

[leftybutnotPM]

The SE was company was founded by one of Miura's master forgers, Hyatsu Makamoto.

In fact, it was Hyatsu Makamoto, who is commonly believed to be the guy who forged Miura irons for Tiger under the Titleist name. He has neither confirmed nor denied the claim.

The Red Zone line of putters was limited to 100 units and commonly sell for between 5 and 7 thousand dollars due to their rarity and "feel", claimed by many players, including five former top 3 players to be second to none.

A disguised model was (in)famously in the bag in the final round of a PGA Championship win in the late 1990s after the owner's Ping anser was stolen the night before.

Scotty Cameron tried to buy the company in 2003 so he could bury it, purportedly, but a consortium of former Tour players outbid him and the brand lives on under a different name which legal constraints stop us from stating here.

Your putter model could well be the Prototype  B16 made for Brad Faxon in 1999 which was thought to have been lost  - and was commonly believed to be in Arnold Palmer's private collection. If so, it would fetch well over $200,000 at the right auction. But that is only if the red paintfill in the "o" can be authenticated as original.

 

 

Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[Adam C]

If you make putts with it then it's priceless.

However if you were hoping to retire off the auction proceeds from it, sorry. Maybe you could get $10 for it on a good day. Nothing in the pictures show me anything that indicates any value to it; brand, material, or design.

Also Patent Pending (aka Provisional Patent) and Utility Patent (actual legal patent) are very different things. Every tv golf infomercial product has or at least claims to have a Provisional Patent, which is by itself quite meaningless.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, leftybutnotPM said:

The SE was company was founded by one of Miura's master forgers, Hyatsu Makamoto.

In fact, it was Hyatsu Makamoto, who is commonly believed to be the guy who forged Miura irons for Tiger under the Titleist name. He has neither confirmed nor denied the claim.

The Red Zone line of putters was limited to 100 units and commonly sell for between 5 and 7 thousand dollars due to their rarity and "feel", claimed by many players, including five former top 3 players to be second to none.

A disguised model was (in)famously in the bag in the final round of a PGA Championship win in the late 1990s after the owner's Ping anser was stolen the night before.

Scotty Cameron tried to buy the company in 2003 so he could bury it, purportedly, but a consortium of former Tour players outbid him and the brand lives on under a different name which legal constraints stop us from stating here.

Your putter model could well be the Prototype  B16 made for Brad Faxon in 1999 which was thought to have been lost  - and was commonly believed to be in Arnold Palmer's private collection. If so, it would fetch well over $200,000 at the right auction. But that is only if the red paintfill in the "o" can be authenticated as original.

 

 

Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?

 

 

[David in FL]

2 hours ago, Deep Putts said:

I'd love to hear from some others. Cheers Lefty.

If you make putts with it, keep it.

Otherwise, if someone offers you $10 for it, take it before they change their mind.

[Buckeyebowman]

This thread confuses me a bit. This is supposedly a "cheap" cast club, yet the face is milled! What do milling machines cost, and how many putters have to be run through them to make them "cheap"? Keep in mind, they need an operator and new bits from time to time. 

But, as several have replied, if it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, put it in the closet!

[Deep Putts]

34 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

This thread confuses me a bit. This is supposedly a "cheap" cast club, yet the face is milled! What do milling machines cost, and how many putters have to be run through them to make them "cheap"? Keep in mind, they need an operator and new bits from time to time. 

But, as several have replied, if it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, put it in the closet!

Yep I agree, I have tons of $10 clubs in my collection, none of them have nicely milled faces, Winn pistol grips, or patent pending on them, never seen that on a cheapie before. So it may be a consumer model but it definitely was not a $10 club. It putts very well, nothing cheap feeling about it at all that I can detect.

1 hour ago, Adam C said:

If you make putts with it then it's priceless.

However if you were hoping to retire off the auction proceeds from it, sorry. Maybe you could get $10 for it on a good day. Nothing in the pictures show me anything that indicates any value to it; brand, material, or design.

Also Patent Pending (aka Provisional Patent) and Utility Patent (actual legal patent) are very different things. Every tv golf infomercial product has or at least claims to have a Provisional Patent, which is by itself quite meaningless.

I've never seen patent pending on a $10 club before. And it's definitely not common to see on putters in my experience. I don't watch TV so I can't speak to that. Not saying it adds value, point was why would someone making $10 clubs bother? Or bother to use genuine Winn grips? Or bother to mill the face rather than just insert? Not saying it's an expensive putter, but those additional features definitely add up to "too much cost" for any company making $10 putters. And it definitely does not feel "extremely cheap", a guy who plays a Scotty just stroked it and said it felt nice, confirms what I felt too. I have no intention of making it a game club, just curious who SE Golf was, not often you find a putter with zero references on Google. 🙂

Edited August 19, 2019 by Deep Putts

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Deep Putts said:

Yep I agree, I have tons of $10 clubs in my collection, none of them have nicely milled faces, Winn pistol grips, or patent pending on them, never seen that on a cheapie before. So it may be a consumer model but it definitely was not a $10 club. It putts very well, nothing cheap feeling about it at all that I can detect.

I don't know what to tell you. You don't want to hear it.

It's not a high quality known putter. It's a run-of-the-mill, Wal-Mart level putter. If you Google "Red Zone Putter" or "Red Zone Golf Clubs" you get a bunch of junior sets.

12 minutes ago, Deep Putts said:

I've never seen patent pending on a $10 club before.

I have. You didn't read the bit above about how easy it is to get a "patent pending." What do you think is "patentable" about your putter?

12 minutes ago, Deep Putts said:

Not saying it adds value, point was why would someone making $10 clubs bother?

It's used, no? He's not saying it sold originally for $10, but that's about what it'd be worth now.

12 minutes ago, Deep Putts said:

Or bother to mill the face rather than just insert?

Milling can be cheaper than an insert. Milling isn't all that special.

[Deep Putts]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't know what to tell you. You don't want to hear it.

It's not a high quality known putter. It's a run-of-the-mill, Wal-Mart level putter. If you Google "Red Zone Putter" or "Red Zone Golf Clubs" you get a bunch of junior sets.

I have. You didn't read the bit above about how easy it is to get a "patent pending." What do you think is "patentable" about your putter?

It's used, no? He's not saying it sold originally for $10, but that's about what it'd be worth now.

Milling can be cheaper than an insert. Milling isn't all that special.

Totally different logo, not the same Red Zone. I googled first, deduced the ones you mentioned were not a match, then came here.

You missed the point. I do not see "patent pending" on hosels. I handle lots of putters. I can't explain it's presence to you obviously as I have yet to determine the origin of the putter but anyone who makes clubs knows that stamping the hosel is a step you would never make if you were making "cheap as possible" clubs. Again, no one said it's an expensive club but definitely was not made as cheaply as possible. Walmart's cheapest clubs do not have Winn Pistol grips, you can confirm that easily.

 

I just want to find out who this company was and this putter if I can, if I can't it's not really something I want to defend to someone who's never touched it. But I appreciate the feedback. It's definitely not manufactured to the cheapest standards, nor does it feel cheap. The roll is on par with more expensive clubs and nothing like the myriad $10 clubs here. Cheers.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Deep Putts said:

You missed the point. I do not see "patent pending" on hosels. I handle lots of putters.

You're the second person in the past two minutes to say that, and like the other, I didn't miss the point.

Patent pending means almost nothing. It doesn't mean they've been granted a patent. It costs very, very little to submit a patent application.

1 minute ago, Deep Putts said:

I can't explain it's presence to you obviously as I have yet to determine the origin of the putter but anyone who makes clubs knows that stamping the hosel is a step you would never make if you were making "cheap as possible" clubs.

Nobody's said "cheap as possible." Except you just now, and me in quoting it right here.

1 minute ago, Deep Putts said:

Again, no one said it's an expensive club but definitely was not made as cheaply as possible. Walmart's cheapest clubs do not have Winn Pistol grips, you can confirm that easily.

The grip may be an aftermarket grip.

Dude, it's not an expensive putter. If you can get $10 or $15 for it, go for it. That's my recommendation.

1 minute ago, Deep Putts said:

I just want to find out who this company was and this putter if I can, if I can't it's not really something I want to defend to someone who's never touched it. But I appreciate the feedback. It's definitely not manufactured to the cheapest standards, nor does it feel cheap. The roll is on par with more expensive clubs and nothing like the myriad $10 clubs here. Cheers.

It's a flat piece of metal on the end of a stick. I could make a putter that "rolls" things perfectly well enough for $4 in parts from Lowe's and a putter shaft. Hell, a hammer could "roll" it well.

You're missing the points:

• The putter is nothing special.
• It's not worth much $.
• It's probably from some overseas, cheap, Chinese type place with no actual web presence or any sort of actual company.

If it was a known company, Google would have some information on it. The lack of anything on it is a big key bit of information that you're ignoring.

[Deep Putts]

And just to insert a quick reality check here cheapest putter at Walmart is $60 USD and as I mentioned is neither milled, stamped, nor Winn gripped.  Cheers. 🙂

Merchants of Golf 1113533 Tour x Golf Black Putter no.550 | Walmart Canada

---

Buy Merchants of Golf 1113533 Tour x Golf Black Putter no.550 from Walmart Canada. Shop for more Golf Clubs available online at...

 

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're the second person in the past two minutes to say that, and like the other, I didn't miss the point.

Patent pending means almost nothing. It doesn't mean they've been granted a patent. It costs very, very little to submit a patent application.

Nobody's said "cheap as possible." Except you just now, and me in quoting it right here.

The grip may be an aftermarket grip.

Dude, it's not an expensive putter. If you can get $10 or $15 for it, go for it. That's my recommendation.

It's a flat piece of metal on the end of a stick. I could make a putter that "rolls" things perfectly well enough for $4 in parts from Lowe's and a putter shaft. Hell, a hammer could "roll" it well.

You're missing the points:

• The putter is nothing special.
• It's not worth much $.
• It's probably from some overseas, cheap, Chinese type place with no actual web presence or any sort of actual company.

If it was a known company, Google would have some information on it. The lack of anything on it is a big key bit of information that you're ignoring.

Stamping a hosel is not trivial to the mass production of a club if costs are your priority. Ask any club maker they will confirm. Anyhow I appreciate your feedback, noted. Cheers.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Deep Putts

[Deep Putts]

As to the milling being cheaper than inserts I'm going to have to politely disagree there too. AFAIK cheapest inserts are much much much cheaper in production than cheapest milling. You have to factor in the cost of milling tools and their maintenance. A cast clubhead requires zero tools to insert. One human can probably do 400-500 inserts in a day, and the materials are super cheap. Milling requires a mill. And bits. And programs. And people who keep those things running. As far as I know the costs are not comparable at all, and that accounts for why all the cheap clubs at Walmart have inserts while the buying trend is milled. Golf Spy did a piece on this but suffice to say I can't agree with that statement but i respect your opinion. Cheers. 🙂
 

The TRUE Cost of Making a Putter

---

Manufacturers throw around plenty of buzzwords to justify higher costs, but what does it really cost to make a putter? The answer may surprise you.

 

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're the second person in the past two minutes to say that, and like the other, I didn't miss the point.

Patent pending means almost nothing. It doesn't mean they've been granted a patent. It costs very, very little to submit a patent application.

Nobody's said "cheap as possible." Except you just now, and me in quoting it right here.

The grip may be an aftermarket grip.

Dude, it's not an expensive putter. If you can get $10 or $15 for it, go for it. That's my recommendation.

It's a flat piece of metal on the end of a stick. I could make a putter that "rolls" things perfectly well enough for $4 in parts from Lowe's and a putter shaft. Hell, a hammer could "roll" it well.

You're missing the points:

• The putter is nothing special.
• It's not worth much $.
• It's probably from some overseas, cheap, Chinese type place with no actual web presence or any sort of actual company.

If it was a known company, Google would have some information on it. The lack of anything on it is a big key bit of information that you're ignoring.

I think I mentioned a few times "no one is saying it's an expensive putter", so I'm confused why you said that. I'd just like to know it's heritage that's all. I'm curious. I am not selling it, I'm not gaming it, not claiming it's expensive, just curious about it because I like it. Cheers.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Deep Putts said:

As to the milling being cheaper than inserts I'm going to have to politely disagree there too. AFAIK cheapest inserts are much much much cheaper in production than cheapest milling. You have to factor in the cost of milling tools and their maintenance. A cast clubhead requires zero tools to insert. One human can probably do 400-500 inserts in a day, and the materials are super cheap. Milling requires a mill. And bits. And programs. And people who keep those things running. As far as I know the costs are not comparable at all, and that accounts for why all the cheap clubs at Walmart have inserts while the buying trend is milled. Golf Spy did a piece on this but suffice to say I can't agree with that statement but i respect your opinion. Cheers. 🙂

OMG, I said milling can be cheaper than an insert. That's true.

It's a cheap no-name putter. Give it up already.

[leftybutnotPM]

30 minutes ago, Deep Putts said:

 

just want to find out who this company was and this putter if I can, if I can't it's not really something I want to defend to someone who's never touched it. But I appreciate the feedback. It's definitely not manufactured to the cheapest standards, nor does it feel cheap. The roll is on par with more expensive clubs and nothing like the myriad $10 clubs here. Cheers.

Let's be totally clear about this.

Your putter is pretty much as bad as they come. Cheap as they come and just as nasty.

I have had Winn putter grips that have had to be replaced after a single round because the outer rubber/plastic skin tears off just from the club being rubbing against the bag. This one is probably a replacement anyway.

But, just in case you need help in identifying a $15 putter, they all have one thing in common with yours.  A dozen "alignment aids". Stripes and lines and paint fills, none of which are in themselves aligned. Are you seriously hoping someone is going to tell you something different?

This is the type of thing you'd see at a putt putt course.

Milling machines are not high tech machines these days. Any engineering shop has one and all they do is grind off the uneven surface from the crappy casting in putters like yours. And.. it's a MILLED FACE, not a milled putter.

I've tried the truth, an attempt at humour and now I'm trying the truth again. Take that to any shop and try to trade it on a $200 putter and see if you get $5. You might, but probably won't.

Edited August 19, 2019 by leftybutnotPM