Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 6494 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

0  

  1. 1. Who should legally pay for a broken window?

    • The home owner should since they knew what they were doing!
      45
    • The poor golfer who's only decent shot when through the window.
      37
    • The golf course
      10


Recommended Posts

Posted
It doesn't matter to me what the par is on the course because the houses are never in play because they are not on the course. The decent thing to do is not to be a smart ass, but to resolve the situation that you created by hitting your ball off the course. Sure there is little recourse that a homeowner is going to have, but it is more like the jackass in the parking lot that dings your door and then walks away. I guess the bottom line is that not everyone has integrity and will handle the situation based on their own moral and ethical values.

Callaway AI Smoke TD Max 10.5* | Cobra Big Tour 15.5* | Rad Tour 18.5* | Titleist U500 4i | T100 5-P | Vokey 50/8* F, 54/10* S,  58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback 1


  • Replies 77
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted
I called up the PGA HQ to ask them what to do. One of the guys said it was a part of golf and told me the story of how he hit a shot and it had a crazy bounce off the cart path into the main road and hit a car. As far as the window, if the homeowner did not have insurance and the course did not have insurance then your SOL and should pay up. But all courses and all homes should have insurance for when things like that happen. As long as you didnt aim for the window your ok. He also said he knew I didnt aim for the window because any golfer will tell you it is next to impossable to hit anything you aim for in the golf course!!!


This week I will take a week off since I got Tiger Woods on the Wii and want to play that this weekend... but next week I got a tee time ready!!!

Driver: Callaway Hyper X 11°
3 Wood: Callaway FTi Square 15°
3 Iron-PW: Callaway X-22
SW: Callaway X-Wedge 56
Gap: Warrior 52Lob: Warrior 60Putters: Old "Made in China" Blade -?Ti7?Bag: Callaway Weekender Org 14 cart bag -Holds 12 beers-Ball: Callaway WarbirdBall Retriever: Golf...


Posted
He also said he knew I didnt aim for the window because any golfer will tell you it is next to impossable to hit anything you aim for in the golf course!!!

That line alone was worth the phone call!

Callaway AI Smoke TD Max 10.5* | Cobra Big Tour 15.5* | Rad Tour 18.5* | Titleist U500 4i | T100 5-P | Vokey 50/8* F, 54/10* S,  58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback 1


Posted
If you live on a course like that your insurance premium is a little higher and they can compensate for that.

I'm glad it wasn't me hitting that ball. I have my signature on every one of my balls. its a good luck thing i do...i used to just dot them but i played my best round ever after goofing around and autographing one like a tour pro does =) its kinda hard signing a golf ball with a sharpy by the way.

In my Bag:

Tour Burner 9.5* ProLaunch Red Shaft
Baffler TWS & DWS Hybrids: 2,4
Irons: 09 Burners 4-AWWC Liquid Copper SW 56*WC Liquid Copper LW 60*Putter: Black OZ T130 TP Black


Posted
Steel, That is a great idea... I am going to start to sign the balls Tiger Woods!!! That way people will not get mad when it goes thru the window. They will put it up on Ebay!!!

Driver: Callaway Hyper X 11°
3 Wood: Callaway FTi Square 15°
3 Iron-PW: Callaway X-22
SW: Callaway X-Wedge 56
Gap: Warrior 52Lob: Warrior 60Putters: Old "Made in China" Blade -?Ti7?Bag: Callaway Weekender Org 14 cart bag -Holds 12 beers-Ball: Callaway WarbirdBall Retriever: Golf...


Posted
Steel, That is a great idea... I am going to start to sign the balls Tiger Woods!!! That way people will not get mad when it goes thru the window. They will put it up on Ebay!!!

Maybe one day i'll be good enough to see one of mine on ebay that someone has found!

....At this point its only being sold as a notorious ball that killed somebody standing down range waaaay off to the right.

In my Bag:

Tour Burner 9.5* ProLaunch Red Shaft
Baffler TWS & DWS Hybrids: 2,4
Irons: 09 Burners 4-AWWC Liquid Copper SW 56*WC Liquid Copper LW 60*Putter: Black OZ T130 TP Black


Posted
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — PGA tour golfer Tripp Isenhour is charged in Orlando with killing a protected migratory hawk with a golf shot.

It occurred in December when Isenhour was filming a video segment for the television show "Shoot Like A Pro."

Prosecutors say a red-shouldered hawk was making noise, forcing a video crew to film another take. The hawk moved closer, and the golfer hit several balls at it.

A witness says the bird fell to the ground, bleeding from both nostrils.

The 39-year-old golfer, whose real name is John Henry Isenhour III, is charged with cruelty to animals and killing a migratory bird.


Be careful what you do aim at! End of Jacked thread.

Posted
I forgot to answer the question. The homeowner and their insurance should pay for it unless the golf course owns the property on the land or has some type of deal where they state they'll pay for any damages due to errant golf shots.

Otherwise, the golf course didn't force the homeowners to buy a home there and it's perfectly reasonable to expect errant shots to hit the home if it's close to a golf hole. That being said, it never ceases to amaze how many people own a home on a course and can't believe that anybody would hit an errant shot that would hit their house. At one course I used to play at there was a house built about 30 yards away from a green on a par 4 that would require anything from a 3 wood to a 7 iron into the green (depending on what tees you were playing and the wind). It was always windy at this course and 80% of the time the wind blew from left to right in the direction of the house. Yet, the homeowner couldn't believe that anybody could hit their home unless they were doing it on purpose.





3JACK

Posted
I'm amazed at the lack of responsibility here.

If my house is near a road and someone loses control of his car and crashes into it, should I the homeowner pay for his damage because my house is near a road?

The golfer destroyed the home owner's personal property which was on his property. The law is quite clear. Opinions don't matter here, the law (which seems rational to me here) does.

There is a chance the golfer's home owner's insurance may pay for this. I've seen this, a friend's dad hit a ball onto a road and broke a motorist's headlight. My friend's dad's insurance paid for it.

Posted
"I'm amazed at the lack of responsibility here.

If my house is near a road and someone loses control of his car and crashes into it, should I the homeowner pay for his damage because my house is near a road?

The golfer destroyed the home owner's personal property which was on his property. The law is quite clear. Opinions don't matter here, the law (which seems rational to me here) does.

There is a chance the golfer's home owner's insurance may pay for this. I've seen this, a friend's dad hit a ball onto a road and broke a motorist's headlight. My friend's dad's insurance paid for it."

Offshot hits are a part of the game. We all do not shoot the same score as Tiger!!! People will hit the ball and 95% of the people will hit a bad shot. With your example of the car, chances are the car insurance will pay for a part of it but your home owners will pay for the rest.


The law is crazier then common sense... People brake into a house and slip and fall can still sue the homeowner.... They may not win, but they can still sue!!! People sue McDonalds for making coffee too hot... It sucks!!! As far as the law, I asked a Lawyer the answer and he said... Dont offer to pay. Let them try and recover payment from you.

Driver: Callaway Hyper X 11°
3 Wood: Callaway FTi Square 15°
3 Iron-PW: Callaway X-22
SW: Callaway X-Wedge 56
Gap: Warrior 52Lob: Warrior 60Putters: Old "Made in China" Blade -?Ti7?Bag: Callaway Weekender Org 14 cart bag -Holds 12 beers-Ball: Callaway WarbirdBall Retriever: Golf...


Posted
As far as the law, I asked a Lawyer the answer and he said... Dont offer to pay. Let them try and recover payment from you.

It seems you and/or your lawyer friends are a proponent of neither the law nor common sense, but rather a proponent of doing what benefits you.

If I damage someone's property, regardless of the probability of the accident, I would offer to pay.

Posted
It seems you and/or your lawyer friends are a proponent of neither the law nor common sense, but rather a proponent of doing what benefits you.

You are the kind of guy that I would want in my foursome because you have integrity and you would do what is right.

With the response of the lawyer I would not want to be competing with him because he might believe that writing an incorrect score is OK, unless of course you get caught and they can prove it. Nice...

Callaway AI Smoke TD Max 10.5* | Cobra Big Tour 15.5* | Rad Tour 18.5* | Titleist U500 4i | T100 5-P | Vokey 50/8* F, 54/10* S,  58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback 1


Posted
Thank you Spoon. The company of men like you is why I play golf.

The "let them try to recover from you" line made me think of scratching someone's car in a parking lot. Would this lawyer just drive off, not leaving a windshield note, and let the car's owner to try and recover the damages from him?" In addition to being plain wrong, I would actually think this could violate his Bar oath.

Posted
I did what was right and told the golf course... They said don't worry about it. After doing research I learned that morals and law are 2 different things... the law states that the home owner pays period... If he wants someone else to pay he can ask the course or the player... Most courses have insurance for that sort of situation since the design of the course close to houses can be an issue. Morals would say the player pays since he broke the window.... sometimes other factors come into play like having a house 10 feet from the edge of the fairway or having 2 large condo buildings on either side creating a crosswind....



Golf courses and homes have insurance for things like this in regards to property... The Course has insurance for injury..... Some people may not want to put claims through insurance but it is life....

I had a water heater explode... Did I seek money from the company who sold me the heater or the plumber who installed it or the company that made it.... no... I have insurance and they paid...


As for the lawyer in question, they work for the DA... they have good morals... they are just stating the law... if someone wanted to claim payment from you they could take you to small claims court or even big boy court... Jury rules in the home owners favor and case law gets changed and the books change... as it is now, Golfers are off the hook UNLESS THEY DO IT ON PURPOSE!!!!

Driver: Callaway Hyper X 11°
3 Wood: Callaway FTi Square 15°
3 Iron-PW: Callaway X-22
SW: Callaway X-Wedge 56
Gap: Warrior 52Lob: Warrior 60Putters: Old "Made in China" Blade -?Ti7?Bag: Callaway Weekender Org 14 cart bag -Holds 12 beers-Ball: Callaway WarbirdBall Retriever: Golf...


Posted
Most golfing communities address golfers' liability with a clause similar to the above, "All owners, by acceptance and delivery of a deed to a Lot, assume all risks associated with errant golf balls, and all Owners agree not to make any claim or institute any action against the Community Developer, the Club, the golf course designer, the builder or any other party other than the golfer who caused the property damage or personal injury, arising or resulting from any errant balls or golf clubs. In other words, the golfer is responsible for damage but collecting, especially for minor damage, may be an impractical task for the homeowner.

http://library.findlaw.com/2000/Feb/1/126692.html

This is an opinion from a Florida attorney and as you can see minor damage is usually handled by the homeowner, even though the golfer is responsible, because collecting may be an impractical or impossible task without someone admitting to the act or having any witnesses. This is very similar to the view that is addressed on the Allstate site.

That being said, I would offer to pay the deductible if I damaged someone's property, but that is the kind of person that I am. It would and should never get to small claims court.

I still think you handled your situation properly because you contacted the golf course and inquired about local policy.

Callaway AI Smoke TD Max 10.5* | Cobra Big Tour 15.5* | Rad Tour 18.5* | Titleist U500 4i | T100 5-P | Vokey 50/8* F, 54/10* S,  58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback 1


Posted
I actually know the answer to this one, its the golfer who is liable for any and all damage he causes during a round. I know this from working at a golf course. Yes, the home was built on a golf course that doesn't mean they are taking on the expectation that someone will smash their window with a ball anymore than someone whose car gets hit should expect that to happen because they drove by a golf course.

normally it would be the golfer who is responsible but since it was a gust of wind that altered the trajectory of the golf shot, redirecting it towards the window, its "an act of god"

They will beat their swords into golf clubs and their spears into putters. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. Old Tom Morris 2:4


Posted
The law is not the same in all states. In Phoenix, Az the law is on the side of the golfer, however if I broke some glass (hasn't happened yet) I would take care of it.

Beware of old dudes with old clubs and new grips.

 

 


Note: This thread is 6494 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • (Article appeared in the March 15, 2026 edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, p. 1) Dense fog covers the closed driving range at Ruth Park Golf Course in University City on Feb. 19, 2026. After University City attempted to use leftover dirt from Market at Olive building project to improve the driving range, complications arose and closed the range. ‘Free dirt’ proves costly for Ruth Park driving range By Nassim Benchaabane | Post-Dispatch // Photos by Liz Rymarev UNIVERSITY CITY — The dirt was supposed to be a gift. Developers hoping to bring a Target store to Olive Boulevard needed a place to dump thousands of truckloads of excavated dirt. University City offered to take the dirt at its popular golf course's driving range, in hopes it would fix long-standing erosion and stormwater runoff problems. The project was supposed to take three months.  The driving range at Ruth Park is still closed today. It's in worse condition than before. And it's on track to cost University City nearly $900,000 in lost revenue and future repairs. “The ‘free dirt’ and golf course improvements turned out to be not so free,” Darin Girdler, the city's parks director at the time, wrote in an internal memo in August. Records show the project was launched without a contract between the developer and the city, with no written plan for finishing the range after the dirt was dumped and graded, and without clear terms spelling out consequences if the job wasn't done correctly. Instead, city emails show, as the dirt sat there for months, and the erosion and runoff issues got worse, neither developers nor city officials took charge and solved the problems. University City did not make anyone available for an interview to explain how things went wrong. Former city manager Gregory Rose, Target developer Larry Chapman and excavation company Kolb Grading did not respond to requests for comment. Golfers and residents, meanwhile, have grown frustrated. One recent day, Jim Chambers, 69, of Shrewsbury, wondered whether the city should have taken the dirt at all. Chambers said he has golfed at Ruth Park for 32 years and almost always saw the driving range packed with golfers.  The range would get muddy when it rained, and the cracks in the ground left behind would make it hard to retrieve the balls, Chambers said. But the range was still "nice," he said. "It was fine without the dirt," he said. "It’s all erosion now."  A promise to fix the range The nine-hole University City Golf Course, as it was known then, opened in 1931. It was designed by Robert Foulis, who built some of the St. Louis region's most popular golf courses. It was well-liked by both casual and experienced golfers for its small size, ease and beauty.  The driving range, which had space for 25 golfers to hit balls simultaneously, was added in 2008, in an attempt to generate more revenue at the course, which had been operating at a deficit for years. It worked. By 2019, the golf course was successful enough that the city parceled it out of the budget as an "enterprise fund," along with other revenue generators like public parking garages and the city's waste collection program. Annual revenue grew to more than $320,000 by July 2024. But the driving range was also starting to show signs of wear and tear. It sloped downhill from Groby Road toward a wooded area. The irrigation was poor; water pooled at the north end. Erosion caused cracks in the earth that made it impossible for machines to sweep up and retrieve the balls. The city attempted fixes over the years, including in late 2022, when it closed the range for several months to install pipes meant to help drain stormwater. But by 2024, the range was still closing every Wednesday morning so that workers could retrieve balls by hand from the cracks in the ground. Then, that summer, the city thought it found a fix. University City announced it had arranged for Chapman's company, Seneca CRE, to have Kolb move about 46,000 cubic yards of dirt to the golf course to build two more forward tees at the first hole, create a new practice green, level the driving range and add two more acres of grass tee space there. The dirt came from excavation at the construction site for the Market at Olive Project, a $211 million shopping plaza at Interstate 170 and Olive Boulevard that includes Costco, Chick-fil-A, and Target. It was the largest economic development project in University City history, received $70 million in tax incentives, pushed out dozens of longtime homeowners and businesses, and was projected to generate millions in sales tax revenues. In July 2024 about 200 trucks started hauling dirt from the shopping plaza to the golf course one mile down the road for about 28 days. The city promised to post monthly updates for the public.  It never did.   Eroded field section of driving range. 'Have you stopped work?' The city council never voted on the plan to take the dirt. City leaders, in response to a public records request, said they had no written agreement regarding the project. Instead, developers and officials said the dirt needed to be moved promptly in order to secure Target as a tenant at the Market at Olive, the city emails show. St. Louis County, while reviewing the plan to stockpile dirt at Ruth Park, asked the developers to check with the region's sewer agency, the Metropolitan Sewer District, for approval that the project wouldn't impact stormwater management or sewer drains near the range. Disagreement on drainage Chapman, the Seneca president, balked, arguing the dirt wouldn't change the way water flows on the driving range or create an impervious surface. In an email to officials including Rose, the city manager then, and County Executive Sam Page, he said if the work didn't start immediately, they'd have to pay $300,000 to move the dirt to St. Charles instead — or risk losing Target as a tenant. "All we’re trying to do is keep an important economic development project going forward and to help the City out by providing some desired fill material to their golf course," Chapman wrote in the July email. Rose wrote to the county asking it to issue the permit "as promptly as possible" because the work was "critical to economic development."  The next day MSD approved the project without requiring a formal application, based on a plan that had been submitted by engineering firm Stock and Associates, whom Seneca had hired. The plan the county approved called for stockpiling and grading dirt across roughly 3.8 acres of the driving range. But neither city staff nor the developers appeared to have a detailed plan for how things would proceed. Email records show Seneca, Kolb and city officials bouncing questions back and forth over how much dirt would be moved and when, when the golf course would need to close, if the appropriate county, state and MSD protections were in place, and who was responsible for grading the dirt, laying sod or seeds down and making other finishing touches.  In a late August email, Girdler, then the city parks chief, asked about the dirt sitting on the range.  "Have you stopped work at the Golf Course?" Girdler wrote to Seneca and Kolb. "I don’t think you have finished all of the grading, have you?" In September, at least one complaint to the city parks commission said the new dirt made the downhill slope from Groby Road worse, and was actually blocking the view of targets down the range. County inspectors found that the dirt had overrun tarp fencing meant to keep it from seeping downhill into sewer inlets, that dust was getting kicked up into the air, and that failing to reseed the dirt for months only worsened erosion across the range. And golfers were taking notice.  "In my humble opinion, our City Fathers made the mistake of believing the developers again," one resident, Steven Goldstein, wrote in an email to the city parks commission. "And the taxpayers will pay an excessive price for the 'once in a lifetime' gift of 'free dirt' at the driving range."  'Is there no way to hurry this up?' By spring of 2025, nothing had been resolved. Girdler told Seneca and Kolb that the dirt still needed to be graded again to match the original plans, that the drainage system needed to be fixed, and that the dirt needed to be seeded and irrigated. Chapman said Seneca had fulfilled its original agreement with University City, and gone above and beyond to grade the dirt a second time after golfers complained the range was too steep. He pushed the city to try to take ownership of the county land disturbance permit, which required the holder to maintain silt fencing and other stormwater protections, or hire a new contractor to take it over.  "I just need to let MSD know we are done with our portion of the work," Chapman wrote in an email to Rose in late June. In August, University City paid $71,000 to hire Navigate Solutions, a construction consultant firm. Navigate told the city council it would take 13 months to fix the range, including hiring an engineering firm to come up with a new design, and applying for approval from MSD. City officials were frustrated.  "Is there no way to hurry this up?" Mayor Terry Crow said at a council meeting then. "No offense, but this is like death by a thousand cuts." Girdler, in an internal memo, said employees were frustrated, too. "Many things were promised way back in May/June of 2024 that were not delivered on," Girdler wrote. "The City, at least staff, expected a finished project or at least mostly finished. It was never the intent of the City to be in the position to have to spend so much money or time on completing this project." Girdler left the city that month. He declined comment.  'It made a bad situation worse' The driving range is still violating county land disturbance and stormwater regulations, according to recent inspection reports. Brooke Sharp, now deputy city manager after Rose's retirement, acknowledged at a recent council meeting that city staff "didn't have a thorough explanation" of what went wrong. "Essentially the dirt was requested without a plan in place and it made a bad situation worse," Sharp said. The city has estimated it will cost at least $200,000 to hire a construction company to fix the range, in addition to payments to Navigate Solutions. The city did not provide an estimate for how much revenue it lost since the driving range's closure. But critics have pointed to the $300,000 it made the year before it closed, and estimated the city will have lost more than $600,000 by the time it reopens. This month, during a "state of the city" address, Mayor Crow vowed the project would get fixed.  "Out of the goodness of our heart, and the fact that we really wanted Target to come here, we took a quarter of a million dollars worth of free dirt," said Crow, who is running for reelection April 7 and faces a challenge from Councilman Bwayne Smotherson.  "And it’s been the most painful quarter of million dollars worth of free dirt I’ve ever had in my life." 
    • I guess Arberg is now ARRRRRGBerg. Self destructing on the back nine.
    • I mean… It's a TaylorMade promo.
    • This is so cool that they did this, I wish they would do this casually more often
    • Wordle 1,730 5/6 🟨🟨⬜⬜🟩 ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ ⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩 ⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.