Upright Lie at Impact - Looking for Advice

[Allshanks]

Hi all,

Did a search for "upright lie" and "upright" and didn't find anything related to this.  Happy to read existing threads if someone can point me to them!

Some background:  Been playing for 15 years or so and am mid-30s now.  Never calculated an official handicap but usually score in the 85-95 range.   I'm right handed and my shot shape tends to be left to right.  I've been to various instructors over the years and my issue seems to be an open club face at impact rather than an out-to-in swing path.   

Current irons are the same ones I used in high school: Titleist 690 CB with stiff steel shafts (https://valueguide.pga.com/library/34/iron-set/titleist/690-cb-forged/).  At that time I was scoring in the high 70s and could control shot shape fairly well.  These days I don't have much control and really just want to get it down the fairway.

After a few rounds this summer I came to the conclusion my swing is 1. too slow for stiff shafts and 2. not consistent enough and in need of "game-improvement" clubs.  Today I went to golf galaxy to get some swing feedback and basically to confirm number 1 above.  The demo driver they had out was the Taylormade SIM 9 degree with Project X 6.0 Evenflow Riptide 60g shaft.  On their monitors my swing speed was 110-114 and clubface was consistently open about 3-12 degrees.  I don't remember ball speed or any of the other metrics.  Shot shape was much straighter than typical for me and ranged from -7 to +20 yards off line.    In the process of doing this one of the employees asked if I wanted to do some club fitting and I said sure.  After hitting several different 7 irons we settled on the TM SIM max 7-iron.  The demo was standard lie and loft with Steel KBS Stiff Max-85 shaft.  With sole and face tape on I was making impact low-center on the face and contacting the board with the heel of the club.  We adjusted the lie to 2 degrees flat and that helped with contacting the board nearer to the center and did not affect club-face impact.  With the 2 degree flat lie the monitor said the clubface was less open at impact.

 

Question is, is there a way to make this 2 degree lie adjustment with my swing?  Or do I just need to get new irons.

 

Thanks

 

[DrvFrShow]

I'll be honest with you. Lie boards are not reliable for club fitting. They're better than nothing, but they're not reliable. I have a tendency to hook the ball, so they put me on a lie board and said I needed 3 degrees flatter (to 1 degree flat). I sent my clubs back to Cobra to have them bent 2 degrees to standard lie. Fed Ex lost my clubs. So I had a bad feeling and since Cobra had sent them to the wrong address, they sent me a new set and I asked for 1 degree upright. I also worked on swing plane this summer and changed my grip from strong to neutral. I moved the ball a little forward for other reasons. This opened the club face and presented it more "flat". I was hitting a very straight shot with the irons instead of a hook or even a draw. 

You can't bend cast clubs more than 2 degrees, and if they're older than about a year they could snap. Even older forged clubs can snap. My recommendation is to get fit. If you want a really good fitting, go to Club Champion. It'll cost extra, but you'll have a proper fitting.

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by DrvFrShow

[Allshanks]

8 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

I'll be honest with you. Lie boards are not reliable for club fitting. They're better than nothing, but they're not reliable. I have a tendency to hook the ball, so they put me on a lie board and said I needed 3 degrees flatter (to 1 degree flat). I sent my clubs back to Cobra to have them bent 2 degrees to standard lie. Fed Ex lost my clubs. So I had a bad feeling and since Cobra had sent them to the wrong address, they sent me a new set and I asked for 1 degree upright. I also worked on swing plane this summer and changed my grip from strong to neutral. I moved the ball a little forward for other reasons. This opened the club face and presented it more "flat". I was hitting a very straight shot with the irons instead of a hook or even a draw. 

You can't bend cast clubs more than 2 degrees, and if they're older than about a year they could snap. Even older forged clubs can snap. My recommendation is to get fit. If you want a really good fitting, go to Club Champion. It'll cost extra, but you'll have a proper fitting.

 

Thanks for the input.  I've never gotten fitted and my concern is the cost of the clubs I get "fit" to.  Do fitters typically have older/cheaper clubs or do they only fit for the newest and most expensive things?  I'm ok with paying $350 to get fit at the Club Champion in town, but not if they're going to tell me the clubs that "fit" me are $1200 irons, a $600 driver, $400 putter, etc..

[Bonvivant]

1 hour ago, Allshanks said:

Thanks for the input.  I've never gotten fitted and my concern is the cost of the clubs I get "fit" to.  Do fitters typically have older/cheaper clubs or do they only fit for the newest and most expensive things?  I'm ok with paying $350 to get fit at the Club Champion in town, but not if they're going to tell me the clubs that "fit" me are $1200 irons, a $600 driver, $400 putter, etc..

From what I have heard about CC, that is exactly what they will tell you. The real question is, "is it worth going to CC and then not buying irons from them?". For this, I would answer yes. They can tell you loads about what you need, and then you can go find clubs that match up with this for a quarter the price if you go used/older generation.

I think that an iron fit would be good for you. Spend the 150 dollars to get a professional opinion on lie angle and club types, then go find something that matches that out on the open market. Some of the iron sets I've seen people fit into include $100 upcharge PER SHAFT. That means your 800-1200 dollar set just got racked up to close to 2k....just for irons. You could surely find a close fit (maybe not perfect) on the used marked for a quarter of the cost or less.

If you do end up going to CC, they are going to give you a very exotic shaft as your best option. There might be shafts in the stock range that fit you almost (we are talking very close and a fine fit) perfect, but they won't want to sell you those. They make their money on exotic shafts. 600 for a driver would be extremely modest at CC as sometimes their shaft recommendations will cost as much as the driver itself.

[DrvFrShow]

You might just pay for the fitting, find out which club head is best for you, and which shafts (#1 and #2 preferences), and then sit on it for a few days. Check the manufacturer's web site and see what they have. They might offer the same shafts for a few hundred less per set. And just order direct. Don't feel guilty. You paid them for their time. 

 

[arturo28mx]

Posture has a lot to do with lie angle. Narrower stance vs more open stance. Knees more flexed or less flexed. Torso more upright or less upright. For a long time I thought I needed more upright clubs until an instructor fixed my posture and now I can play with standard lie angles.