My swing is truly awful; I'm lost

[SpacklersEdge]

Great job! Sounds like all your work is starting to pay off.

[sonicblue]

Never has so much been so completely so lost in so little time.... I thought I knew exactly what the reason for my succes was. A shortened backswing, with a solid hand/wrist cock position, then simply unwinding the swing while extending the hands "to" square at impact. Just like I had done two days earlier. However, my league last night (9 holes) went as follows:

1) Heel-pulled drive 75 yards left. Got a good break, hit a PW (felt like a poor hit, kinda slid through it) over trees to just off green. Poor chip and missed par putt, bogey.

2) Again pulled drive way left. Lucky again, hit PW (same poor feel, but on target) over trees to just off green. Better chip but missed par putt, bogey.

3) Finally, good 3W drive around corner, well-struck 8I goes over green, great short-side chip, kick-in par. OK, back together, right.....?

4) Dead top a 7I. LW pitch short, 2-putt bogey.

5) Dead push drive right, crappy lie, splat a 5I back across fairway, hit great LW straight up over tree, 2-putt from 25 feet, bogey.

6) Again, dead top a 7I. Then, I skull a LW over green, chip on, 2-putt double.

7) Pull drive onto #8, but I kill it, cutting off a large part of a par-5. However, I again flat top a 7I about 50 yards. I then hosel a LW dead right, back across my fairway. Manage to properly hit LW onto green and leave an easy 15-foot par putt 3" short, bogey.

8) Again, pull drive, now back on #7, but have a shot. I squirt my 6I back across, onto #9. My punch is good, but comes up short. I chip onto a very slick, sloping away green and manage to roll in a very slippery bogey putt.

9) A tiny par 3, downhill, like 100 yards. I have to hit PW b/c I'm terrified I'll hosel a SW. I strike it poorly but straight and have a 10-foot birdie putt, which the golf gods turn 90° in the last inch-and-a-half to stay out, par.

There you have it - THE WORST 42 you'll ever see. I'm off to the range at lunch with my camcorder in hand.

[sonicblue]

I am living proof that mental game is everything, because apparently I shot 76 with the same sh***y-a$$ swing I started this thread with. I just re-recorded today, and the results were disheartening to say the least. On a few of them, I managed to 'shorten' my swing to 'not ridiculously overswinging,' but my plane is still way too vertical. My hands are too active at the top, and at impact, I'm still 'slapping' them through impact ahead of my body. *sigh*

A few of the clips are here, all garbage :(

[Avid Golfer]

I am living proof that mental game is everything, because apparently I shot 76 with the same sh***y-a$$ swing I started this thread with. I just re-recorded today, and the results were disheartening to say the least. On a few of them, I managed to 'shorten' my swing to 'not ridiculously overswinging,' but my plane is still way too vertical. My hands are too active at the top, and at impact, I'm still 'slapping' them through impact ahead of my body. *sigh*

I've put you up against an old Retief Goosen (when he was -7 in a tournament).

The first big difference is posture at setup. You have your upper body tilted over (toward the golf ball) more then we see with Goosen (and most tour pros). As you will see Goosen has the edge of his shoulders in line with his knee caps, and the balls of his feet. You have a gap between where your shoulders are positioned, and where your knee caps and balls of your feet are lined up. Your setup position promotes getting your weight toward your toes, lifting the club up into a steep position. Those positions will lead to a steep downswing and your body moving toward the ball (blocking and cramping your arms). Notice the position of your hips at address (the red line touches the edge of your pants/belt buckle - like Goosen), and notice how they have moved much closer to the ball (white line in impact photos). If you look at Goosen you see far less movement (the camera moved during his swing, so it shows more movement then what really occured with Goosen). Also if you look at Trevor Immelman at impact you will see he remained the same distance from the ball during the swing (not moving closer to the ball). If you work on getting your upper body posture in a more balanced position at setup you may see significant improvement in your ball striking. You might also benefit from keeping your back turned away from the target while you let your arms drop as you start down.

[sonicblue]

Weird, because I already 'feel' very upright, but those pics prove it, I am too tilted at the hips. All the rest makes a lot of sense. I don't really feel myself getting forward, but it explains my frequent pushes and occasional hosels (of course, it also explains the times I suddenly whip my hands over and pull something into deep left field).

So, to sum up: more upright at address, weight better balanced/toward the heels, should lead to a flatter plane and provide clearance to come from the inside. Sound about right?

EDIT: One more thing, and this isn't to make it sound like you were too critical. I am very grateful for the analysis. Is there any aspect/position you can specifically point out as correct/good/positive? I want to try to adjust to your advice gradually, but also make sure I don't undo anything that's in good shape. Thanks!

[Avid Golfer]

EDIT: One more thing, and this isn't to make it sound like you were too critical. I am very grateful for the analysis. Is there any aspect/position you can specifically point out as correct/good/positive? I want to try to adjust to your advice gradually, but also make sure I don't undo anything that's in good shape. Thanks!

I think your lower body angles look(ed) very good at setup, and your general body motion look(ed) good. Your right arm arrived at the top of the swing parallel to your spine angle (which is good), and your left arm wasn't far off from parallel to the original shaft angle plane (which is also good). Overall it looked very good.

The only thing that looked off was the amount of tilt of the upper body at address (which promoted other bad positions). With the correction of upper body posture (and balance) I think a lot of the other problems might automatically be corrected.

[sonicblue]

So if I'm following, my plane relative to my torso is OK, it's just that my upper body (the whole unit) is too forward? I see some pretty sharp differences in hand angles/position at the top. Is that just slight differences in the exact frame of each swing. I feel like my left hand is a little cupped, putting the club a little too close to my neck. I'm ashamed to admit, though proud to say I've eliminated as of late, I used to actually hit myself in the back of the neck with my driver shaft. Man, that never gets not-embarrassing to admit.....

And thanks again, I can't wait to get out and work on this!

[Avid Golfer]

I see some pretty sharp differences in hand angles/position at the top. Is that just slight differences in the exact frame of each swing. I feel like my left hand is a little cupped, putting the club a little too close to my neck. I'm ashamed to admit, though proud to say I've eliminated as of late, I used to actually hit myself in the back of the neck with my driver shaft. Man, that never gets not-embarrassing to admit.....

The top of swing position may be slightly off, but I would think it would automatically improve with your posture changes at setup. I wouldn't be too concerned with the left hand cupping since there are pros that do so (like Fred Couples), and still make good contact. Again that's something I think might improve with adjustments to posture and balance. Keeping your upper arms close to your chest (armpits), and feeling like the arms and chest swing in sync together might also help you make a more efficent backswing and top of swing. (That's if you want something else to think about, and you don't see enough improvement from a setup change alone).

[sonicblue]

I followed your advice, Avid. All I did was straighten up at setup. I just tried to "think of" my armpits being over my shoulders. From there, I just tried to do all the same things I had been working on: quiet hands, no arm lift, just a short torso turn, then unwinding the torso, with hands extending to square/impact/ball.

I have to admit, it felt very weird (obviously). Despite the change in posture, I was able to maintain my balance, but I felt like my swing plane was almost horizontal! However, I definitely felt more clearance with my hands and a more inside approach. As expected (and I just let it happen, I didn't fight to overcome this right away), my mishits were off the toe and some of my crisp hits were draws, but I'm not concerned.

I applied my new posture to my short game, too. Even with small swings, the inside approach feel alleviated concerns of hosels, and I hit some really good shots there. All in all, for just nine holes of practice with (what felt like) a drastic change, went very well!

[sonicblue]

*sigh* well, round 2 didn't go so well. I definitely just didn't feel right, like I was stuck between the old swing and trying to work in the new. I had several thin hits and lots of pushes, which I'm trying to view positively as I am staying more upright, and swinging inside out, respectively. I think my biggest issue right now is still my hands; I'm not getting a good hinge, nor am I releasing it well. Alas, my short game was very, very good, including a chip-in, so I clunked in an 84, nonetheless.

My putting feels so good right now, I'm looking at every 20-footer licking my chops. It's just amazing how that can keep you relaxed when you can't hit a fairway or green to save your life

[jambalaya]

Weird, because I already 'feel' very upright, but those pics prove it, I am too tilted at the hips. All the rest makes a lot of sense. I don't really feel myself getting forward, but it explains my frequent pushes and occasional hosels (of course, it also explains the times I suddenly whip my hands over and pull something into deep left field).

Man, I wish my swing looked like that at the top. Why so little bend in your knees?

[sonicblue]

Man, I wish my swing looked like that at the top. Why so little bend in your knees?

Thanks, but snapshot are only half the story. I just can't make consistent contact coming from that plane.

I have had five knee operations on my right knee, and I have a highly arthritic area at around 30° of flexion. Thus, I can't really keep it flexed too much: either it's too painful, and/or I just can't push off it and get onto my left side at all. The result is, I keep my knees rather straight and keep my lower body very quiet.

[$2 Nassau]

This is a great thread, just read through the entire thing. While your swing is fundamentally better than mine, we are experiencing some similar problems: over-active hands/arms and a tendancy to lean into the ball(I also have some other issues going on as well)

I'm pretty sure my weight distribution at set up is poor. I'm finally beginning to realize how important set up is. It all starts (and ends) with a proper set up. I tend to set up with too much weight on my toes, then rock back on the heels a bit and then back onto the toes on the downswing.

It's been difficult to correct this without over-correcting it, but starting with my weight a little more towards the heels (or just not so much on the toes) has helped to established a better base. Really have to work at it and keep it in the conscious though in order to battle the bad habits that I have ingrained.

I find it especially hard because I really don't want to think this much while actually playing golf, I'd rather just worry about sending my ball to my target - but you can't do one w/out the other.

Best of luck.

[sonicblue]

Update: well, my attempt to flatten my swing/raise my posture is failing miserably. Right now, I'm chalking it up to, some people just fit certain anatomical positions, and mine is a more upright swing. After floundering in a couple rounds, I just went back to what feels better. However, I made sure not to let myself slouch, and still concentrated on less arms, a shorter swing, tempo and balance. The result: on two courses I never played before, an 80 and 85 (the 85 was marred by poor putting at times, but I had 3 or 4 birdies, IIRC, good for me).

[whip_it_out]

Just goign by the title, you have lost all confidence. Gain the midset of, " I am going to swing well, I have confidence in my swing".

Then go to the rang, and check and MAKE DEAD SURE everythign is aligned right. MAke sure shoulders, hips, knees, feet , and club are square.

Once you look at that, work on what you wanted to do, shortening your swing, for example. Make sure every swing is to where you want to be, parallel, I would say. You have to make sure youre actually doing it, so ask someone to tell you how long youre swinging. No use in practicing your flaws.

[sonicblue]

The downhill slide continues. I played this weekend, determine to focus on two main things:

1) Pick my target, pick my spot in front of the ball, align well and focus on simply hitting the ball from its resting spot to the target right in front of the ball

2) Keeping my swing motion "quiet," trying not to hit with the hands, which I was hoping would encourage a better inside-out approach and crisper contact.

It didn't work. Not even a little. My problem is ALL my divots point left. Balls that feel struck perfectly, the divot points left. Shots that feel poor, the divot points 45* left. I'm lofting my irons, I know I am, but simply have no idea how to make my anatomy deloft it, even though I used to do it quite well. I just don't know what's going on.

I really fear getting lessons. The other day at the range, the teaching pro there asked me what I was working on, and I said just trying to get inside-out, and she muttered something very glibly, like "well, you're just never getting behind the ball," or something. It seemed very dismissive, like my problem was so clear, why couldn't I see it myself.

I'm hitting just enough "pretty good" shots each round to keep my score in check, but I'm mentally exhausted from the scrambling by the end of the round. Something's gotta give.....

[Grndslmhttr3]

I had/still sort of have a very similar problem as you mentioned in your most recent post:

With 2), make sure your shoulders are parallel to your target. If they are open, your body will naturally take the club outside, causing you to come from the outside on your downswing, thus putting sidespin on the shot. Same goes for a closed stance. Seeing as I'm no pro, this advice may or may not work for you, but it works for me.

[Avid Golfer]

My problem is ALL my divots point left. Balls that feel struck perfectly, the divot points left. Shots that feel poor, the divot points 45* left. I'm lofting my irons, I know I am, but simply have no idea how to make my anatomy deloft it, even though I used to do it quite well. I just don't know what's going on.

Grndslmhttr3's tip about checking your shoulder alignment at setup is a good one. Your upper body alignment dictates the direction your body and club will swing back. If your upper body is aligned left making your swing start back outside the ball to target line you'll also be extremely likely to swing through from the same direction (coming down from the right of the ball to target line, and swinging to the left going through).

I'd recommend strengthening your target side grip (left hand for right handed golfers) to increase your amount of deloft at impact. Bobby Jones credited his strong left hand grip at setup with causing his hands to be ahead of the ball at impact, and said that Harry Vardon's weak left hand grip made Vardon arrive at impact with the hands even at impact.

I really fear getting lessons. The other day at the range, the teaching pro there asked me what I was working on, and I said just trying to get inside-out, and she muttered something very glibly, like "well, you're just never getting behind the ball," or something. It seemed very dismissive, like my problem was so clear, why couldn't I see it myself.

Lessons will only benefit you if you find a quality instructor that is able to communicate in a way you understand, and with information that makes sense. The instructor you described above does not sound like a good instructor to me. Getting behind the ball has little to no relevance to swing path at impact.