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Posted
It seems that smaller club faces are better for shot shaping. I think i have read this when reading about clubs. I also think this is true for both irons and drivers. Am i correct? If so, why is that? just curious

Tour Burner 9.5 w real Diamana 63 S
906f4 15.5 Proforce V2 S
909H 19 Diamana S
755 4-PW
Vokey 50/56/60Yes! NatalieBushnell Medalist w/ PinseekerI'll play just about any ball


Posted
usually it's because the smaller faces are players irons, and the bigger faced/big cavitiy clubs are game improvement/super game improvement. players irons you can shape and game improvement irons are difficult to do so because of all the forgiveness in the club. eg clevelands cg1 irons, and the hibore sgi clubs

What's in the bag

Driver: 9.5* 905R w/ Proforce UST V2 (X)
3w: UST Proforce FW stiff 15*
Hybrid: 585H 19* Aldila "by you" xIrons: CG1 3-PW s300 dynamic goldWedges: 53*/58* Putter: Mid SurBall: whatever I feel like buying that day


Posted
thanks for the reply. so the cavity makes the ball less likely to spin R or L? so is my idea that a smaller face makes it more playable wrong?

Tour Burner 9.5 w real Diamana 63 S
906f4 15.5 Proforce V2 S
909H 19 Diamana S
755 4-PW
Vokey 50/56/60Yes! NatalieBushnell Medalist w/ PinseekerI'll play just about any ball


Posted
no, you're right, less cavity/moi makes it easier to shape and also harder to hit

What's in the bag

Driver: 9.5* 905R w/ Proforce UST V2 (X)
3w: UST Proforce FW stiff 15*
Hybrid: 585H 19* Aldila "by you" xIrons: CG1 3-PW s300 dynamic goldWedges: 53*/58* Putter: Mid SurBall: whatever I feel like buying that day


Posted
I don't disagree with the above responses. However, regardless of how large or "forgiving" an iron is, any shot can be sliced/hooked at will by either opening or closing the club-face and making a normal swing. I don't care how forgiving a club is, if I want to hit a severe hook I shut down the clubface. The opposite is true for a slice.

Driver: R7 425 TP w/ stock Fujikura stiff shaft
Hybrid: 16 degree baffler pro with stiff Fujikura Speeder shaft
Irons: X-20 tour 3-PW w/ 6.0 Project X shafts
52 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft
56 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft60 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaftPutter:...


Posted
yeah see i guess i'll explain how i figure it: take a driver and forget irons and cavitys. On titleists website their tour drivers like the 905s and the 907d2 are always smaller and say are more "workable" so does size matter or not? I was just trying to understand.

Tour Burner 9.5 w real Diamana 63 S
906f4 15.5 Proforce V2 S
909H 19 Diamana S
755 4-PW
Vokey 50/56/60Yes! NatalieBushnell Medalist w/ PinseekerI'll play just about any ball


Posted
yeah see i guess i'll explain how i figure it: take a driver and forget irons and cavitys. On titleists website their tour drivers like the 905s and the 907d2 are always smaller and say are more "workable" so does size matter or not? I was just trying to understand.

I'm not sure what they mean either. I was at a demo day last week and hit a whole bunch of irons - mostly for fun. One thing I like to do besides hitting "normal" shots is try to hit big sweeping hooks and fades, just to check workability and what not. Once again, not big surprises. I could hit just as big a hook or fade with Callaway X-20's as I could with Titliest AP-2' or Mizuno MP-57's. Again, for me, it has everything to do with how open or closed my clubface is and maybe deviating just a bit either inside-out or outside-in depending on what shot I'm trying to pull off. For me, club-face size makes no difference.

Driver: R7 425 TP w/ stock Fujikura stiff shaft
Hybrid: 16 degree baffler pro with stiff Fujikura Speeder shaft
Irons: X-20 tour 3-PW w/ 6.0 Project X shafts
52 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft
56 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft60 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaftPutter:...


Posted
cool thanks.

Tour Burner 9.5 w real Diamana 63 S
906f4 15.5 Proforce V2 S
909H 19 Diamana S
755 4-PW
Vokey 50/56/60Yes! NatalieBushnell Medalist w/ PinseekerI'll play just about any ball


  • Administrator
Posted
For me, club-face size makes no difference.

Clubface size really won't matter if you hit the exact sweet spot (which is infinitely small).

Once you start mis-hitting the ball, twisting comes into play. The gear effect comes into play. MOI comes into play. Forgiveness comes into play. That's where cavity-backs, etc. offer their "forgiveness." Since most golfers don't find the sweet spot every time - and some rarely do - forgiveness is a factor. The 907D1 IS more forgiving than the 907D2, the ZB IS more forgiving than the ZM, and so on.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted
Clubface size really won't matter if you hit the exact sweet spot (which is infinitely small).

Yeah, I think we were talking about workability...not the ability to avoid disaster due to a mis-hit shot. They are related in some ways but certainly not the same. Anyhow...like I said before. Give me a Callaway Big Bertha iron or a forged muscle back and I'll hit any shot you want with either.

Driver: R7 425 TP w/ stock Fujikura stiff shaft
Hybrid: 16 degree baffler pro with stiff Fujikura Speeder shaft
Irons: X-20 tour 3-PW w/ 6.0 Project X shafts
52 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft
56 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaft60 degree wedge: MR w/ Royal Spinner shaftPutter:...


  • Administrator
Posted
Yeah, I think we were talking about workability...not the ability to avoid disaster due to a mis-hit shot. They are related in some ways but certainly not the same. Anyhow...like I said before. Give me a Callaway Big Bertha iron or a forged muscle back and I'll hit any shot you want with either.

So was I.

You can work the ball if you hit the sweet spot. If you miss the sweet spot, your ability to work the ball is compromised by the "forgiving" clubs. Since most golfers don't hit the sweet spot frequently, "forgiving" clubs are "forgiving."

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Once you start mis-hitting the ball, twisting comes into play. The gear effect comes into play. MOI comes into play. Forgiveness comes into play.

this is how you get pushes and pulls. perimiter weighted clubs try to stop some twisting and hence less right or left shot direction.

Driver: Taylormade R11 set to 8*
3 Wood: R9 15* Motore Stiff
Hybrid: 19° 909 H Voodoo
Irons: 4-PW AP2 Project X 5.5
52*, 60* Vokey SM Chrome

Putter: Odyssey XG #7

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x


Posted
i was just thinking- geez then why do tour pros play with smaller faces if there is NO benefit to a smaller face?

Tour Burner 9.5 w real Diamana 63 S
906f4 15.5 Proforce V2 S
909H 19 Diamana S
755 4-PW
Vokey 50/56/60Yes! NatalieBushnell Medalist w/ PinseekerI'll play just about any ball


  • Administrator
Posted
i was just thinking- geez then why do tour pros play with smaller faces if there is NO benefit to a smaller face?

Better control, better feel, thinner sole (typically), easier to get through the rough and other thick lies... There are advantages.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

oh yeah. read that stuff before too i guess

Tour Burner 9.5 w real Diamana 63 S
906f4 15.5 Proforce V2 S
909H 19 Diamana S
755 4-PW
Vokey 50/56/60Yes! NatalieBushnell Medalist w/ PinseekerI'll play just about any ball


Note: This thread is 6451 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
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    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. 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