Speed From the Arms in the Golf Swing

[iacas]

I'm going to "sunset" a few topics over the next few weeks. I'm going to lock them, and refresh them with updated/related topics that will attempt to paint a clearer picture.

The first topic I'm going to sunset will be this one:

Essentially, what I didn't like about that topic, and haven't for years now, is that though the speed is possible it's not necessarily "good" to generate the speed at such a high percentage with the arms. The video might mislead someone into using their arms too much to generate speed. Truth be told, I've not really changed my position here, but rather than bury the response deep in the topic where it could be easily missed, I wanted to refine it and make it clearer and call it out with a new discussion.

The topic arose because, at the time, I was seeing a lot of talk around how you should have "passive arms" during the golf swing. I even saw supposed "speed experts" arguing againstusing the arms much at all. I did not agree with that then, and do not agree with that now. I'm not advocating that the arms are passive in the golf swing. And Dr. Kwon, when asked what the simplest way to swing faster was, still answered "swing the arms faster." I believe those things are still true.

What I think could be clearer is the direction and/or proper way to use the arms to generate speed. In the video I recorded, I achieved tremendous speeds from trying to "just" use my arms from this position:

I was able to generate a LOT of speed from those positions: 102 and 100 MPH (above). In just trying to use the body to turn (below), I was able to generate significantly less. First without lifting the arms at all (bending the right elbow at all):

Then while elevating and trying to feel very passive arms:

I say during the video itself that this is "not scientific," and titled it the same way, but I still think demonstrates what I said then: that the majority of the speed comes from the arms in the golf swing. Even though the clubhead is pretty far from the center of rotation… it still doesn't generate a ton of speed with passive arms. Perhaps if we were the Tasmanian Devil, and could spin really fast, it might work to swing with passive arms, but I've yet to look at anyone's golf swing on video and see anything remotely resembling…

In looking back, honestly, my memory of what I did there was worse than what I actually did. I am pleasantly surprised at what I did there, as my memory was that I pulled my left arm WAY across my chest, bent my right elbow a bunch, etc. I didn't do those things nearly as much as I thought I may have.

So, if the speed in the golf swing still comes primarily from the arms… why are we updating the topic? Because I want to stress the proper way to use the arms to generate speed.

As I've been telling people for years now (my juniors get sick of hearing it):

• Body = Around
• Arms = Up/Down

This is solidified when we look at the best players and what they do and how they move their arms:

A bigger look at each of those images:

Pro golfers are NOT moving their arms "around" their bodies much. Rory in the images just above (oops, let the cat out of the bag there, ha ha) moves his arms primarily up. His right arm abducts slightly, and the bending of his right elbow pulls his hands slightly across his chest. His lead arm adduction goes from about 80° at setup to 63° at the top.

His arms are primarily moving the clubhead up during the backswing.

So, where does the speed come from? Speed comes from moving the arms (and the clubhead) DOWN in the downswing. What goes up must come down. It's no different in the golf swing. Your arms generate tremendous speed while doing three things in the golf swing, listed in order of their relevance:

1. Un-bending of the trail elbow and the wrists.
2. Re-attaching the trail elbow down to the side (i.e. de-elevating the trail humerus)
3. Slight adduction of the trail humerus (the lead humerus is abducted from #1).

On that list, there's a BIG gap between 1 and 2, and a significantly smaller one between 2 and 3.

Now, as I said in the video, these speeds aren't strictly additive. I do not swing at 150 MPH. If I did, I probably wouldn't be here posting about it on TST. 😄 The arms move up/down relative to the platform of your chest, but your chest/torso still turns through.

Though I tried to keep trail elbow bend to 90° or so, if I had wanted to make the test and video better, I'd have positioned the radar such that I could swing down from a position more like what we see in the images of Rory up above. I am not entirely sure how I'd have done that, seeing as how I'd be swinging into my left ankle, but perhaps I could have found a way. The extra adduction of the lead arm that I do in the video when doing the "arms only" part is attributable to the fact that I left the radar in the same place and had to swing "past" it to get a reading.

Had I done it better, I'd have done it more like these guys:

Had I managed to record a swing speed like that, if there's anyone out there who thinks that it would have been in the 50s or low 60s… I've got a bridge to sell you. I don't think I'd have gotten 102 MPH, but I'd have done pretty well for myself, as the positions from which I swung were not super dissimilar.

So, what are the takeaways here?

• No Passive Arms
  Swing your arms actively. Though there are times the arms and wrists and elbows and shoulders may feel passive, feel ain't real.
• Up and Down
  What goes up must come down. If your arms mostly go UP in the backswing, they must go DOWN in the downswing. (Side note: should we call the backswing the "upswing" instead?)
• Trail Elbow Widening
  Though the trail elbow doesn't (shouldn't) bend much, its extension ("straightening") is responsible for most of the speed. Doing this properly and EARLY in the golf swing both lowers the hands and helps…
• Generate Hand Speed Early
  Attempt to generate high hand speeds early in the golf swing. Even with a maximum hand speed in the 20-23 MPH range, if you can get it early in your downswing (above belt height), you can generate Tour-level clubhead speed.

 

Video from here.

P.S. I've described the motion as "throwing" to lower and widen the trail elbow "down and away" (away = from the target AND the ball slightly), in part because I want to encourage that part to have some real speed. In many cases, the faster you "throw" the faster your body will turn/pivot in response

[mvmac]

Great post @iacas. I really like these isolation examples, helpful visuals to what's going on. Couple questions.

- What are you thoughts with players practicing with tees or gloves under their arms?
- Players that tend to get the club in at 2, would that be a lack to arm lift?

5 hours ago, iacas said:

• Trail Elbow Widening
  Though the trail elbow doesn't (shouldn't) bend much, its extension ("straightening") is responsible for most of the speed. Doing this properly and EARLY in the golf swing both lowers the hands and helps…
• Generate Hand Speed Early
  Attempt to generate high hand speeds early in the golf swing. Even with a maximum hand speed in the 20-23 MPH range, if you can get it early in your downswing (above belt height), you can generate Tour-level clubhead speed.

Makes sense and what Nicklaus says he did/felt, released it early. On that note you don't hear good players talk about "holding" on the downswing. 

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Rory in the images just above (oops, let the cat out of the bag there, ha ha) moves his arms primarily up. His right arm abducts slightly, and the bending of his right elbow pulls his hands slightly across his chest. His lead arm adduction goes from about 80° at setup to 63° at the top.

And that's from a player who has a very wide, "one-piece" takeaway look.

[saevel25]

58 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Great post @iacas. I really like these isolation examples, helpful visuals to what's going on. Couple questions.

I love the isolating the motion of certain body parts. It really lets you rethink how they spoils move. 

Great summary of all the discussion on how the arms move relating to the body and adding on the speed aspect. 

[cedrictheo]

Good stuff. I gained a bunch of speed with the concepts and feels around more active arms (as seen in the video of me on gears iacas posted above).

Curious why coaches like Dana Dahlquist and Josh Koch are so into passive arms. I did their 150mph blueprint program and do not recall them ever talking about lowering the arms. Are they prescribing a different swing model and passive arms can actually be fast in that model? Or is it that feel isn’t real (and they are lowering their arms while thinking they aren’t)…

[iacas]

1 hour ago, cedrictheo said:

Or is it that feel isn’t real (and they are lowering their arms while thinking they aren’t)…

We'll continue to talk about this, but… I feel like they're describing a feel, not reality, with that.

[cedrictheo]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

We'll continue to talk about this, but… I feel like they're describing a feel, not reality, with that.

I think you’re right. Likely more of a feel than a reality.

Found a video of Rory’s favorite drill which is right inline with your post.

 

 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, mvmac said:

- What are you thoughts with players practicing with tees or gloves under their arms?

I generally don't like it much because I feel like they encourage you to keep the arms pinned a bit too much to the chest. The trail arm too down, the lead arm too "across."

6 hours ago, mvmac said:

- Players that tend to get the club in at 2, would that be a lack to arm lift?

Could be, but "in" relative to what? Some players roll the forearms and their hands go out, so the clubhead might be fine but relative to the hands, it's "in."

More often there's a little roll and a little slow to lift. Not many will do it like this:

6 hours ago, mvmac said:

Makes sense and what Nicklaus says he did/felt, released it early. On that note you don't hear good players talk about "holding" on the downswing. 

And that's from a player who has a very wide, "one-piece" takeaway look.

Yeah.