Does Being Short Sided Matter?

[iacas]

3 hours ago, klineka said:

I think in the majority of circumstances for most golfers on most holes it's better to aim away from hazards even if it means you're bringing more short sided chances into play compared to aiming away from short sided chances but bringing a hazard or two into play.

Yes.

[WillieT]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Actually 2b, too.

Why? Because they include bunker over fairway. They should be shifted to the right.

You should read my book. 😉

I was thinking- that was not how I recall the diagrams in LSW - and then the author speaks!   

[p1n9183]

 

On 5/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, klineka said:

Based on these images we can't tell how sloped the fairway is off the green, how sloped the green is, etc. If the fairway sits 4 feet under the level of the green and the green runs downhill away from the fairway in the B scenario then that's a significantly different short sided scenario compared to if it's a relatively level fairway to the right of the green and it's a flat, even slightly uphill chip shot.

Fair point. In my mind, as we were talking about shortsided, on the cases that the flag is on the left, been in the bunker is shortsided because the green slopes away from you. And on the cases that the flag is on the right, you have a collection area to the right of the green from were the green slopes away from you.  

 

On 5/19/2023 at 9:43 AM, iacas said:

Actually 2b, too.

On 5/19/2023 at 9:43 AM, iacas said:

Why? Because they include bunker over fairway. They should be shifted to the right.

In 2b if you shift rigth to avoid the bunker you are getting a couple more balls shortsided. In general is easier to get up&down from the bunker were you have plenty of green to work with over the hard shortsided flop/putt from the collection area.  

3b and 4b is the same concept. Is easier to get up&down from the bunker than the collection area, but because the shot zone is larger, you can´t avoid balls in the collection area and been shortsided. If you do shifting it more to the left you are now going to get more balls in the water and that is a worst case scenario and the one to avoid at all costs. 

On 5/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, klineka said:

but what do those shotzones have to do with the topic of this post which is does being short sided matter?

Not been shortsided is better than been shortsided (unless is making you aim too much away from the green). Been shortsided is better than been in a penalty area. Been in a penalty area is better than been OB. 

This shotzones shows you how to aim to avoid the worst case scenario in a specific shot. Sometime it could be a penalty area, sometimes been shortsided. Gives a little more content to the topic.   

 

On 5/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, klineka said:

Just because you choose an optimal shotzone doesn't mean you won't ever be short sided. If you shifted 3b shotzone to the right to eliminate the bunker, that would leave nearly half of their results being shortsided.

If you are a really bad bunker player then been shortsided is not your problem anymore, to avoid that bunker is, so you should aim accordingly to avoid it. Threat it as a penalty and aim away from it. (and of course go and practice bunker play right away)

 

On 5/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, klineka said:

Even 2b when slid slightly further right would have like what, 20% of their shots ending up short sided?

Correct, if you are a really bad bunker player as your caddie i would suggest you to aim right from the bunker, taking it out of play. But if you are a decent bunker player then I would make you aim to the left of the shortsided area to avoid it. 

 

On 5/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, klineka said:

And 4b at least 50% as well if not more being short sided? 

Yes, again. Been shortsided is better than been in the water. Is not all about not been shortsided but to avoid the worst danger in the shot. In 4b water is the worst that can happen to you so you are better off aiming away from it, no matter if you get shortsided or put threes into play. 

 

On 5/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, klineka said:

I think in the majority of circumstances for most golfers on most holes it's better to aim away from hazards even if it means you're bringing more short sided chances into play compared to aiming away from short sided chances but bringing a hazard or two into play.

3b and 4b shows exactly that. 

 

On 5/19/2023 at 10:10 AM, saevel25 said:

I would shift everything right, even the bottom two for each column. Odds are, you are not blocked out by the tree. You can possibly hit a low runner onto the green. You can leave the ball in the bunker for many shots, especially for a bad golfer. 

Depends on the player. For me a greenside bunker with green to work with is a lot better than been on the trees. Not only to get a couple up&down but also to even take double out of play. From the trees you don't know what you can get, and from time to time you are going to miss the green and face a double.
But if you are a really bad bunker player that tend to leave a couple inside the bunker per round is better to aim away from it and more towards the trees.  

This is why I said in the other post that advice on approach shots is really hard to give. There's a lot more into play than been shortsided or not.
The general idea is to aim away from trouble, but trouble differs from shot to shot and sometimes you have different kind of trouble either side. Choose the worst of them and avoid it like a plague.      

[iacas]

7 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

In general is easier to get up&down from the bunker were you have plenty of green to work with over the hard shortsided flop/putt from the collection area.

…

3b and 4b is the same concept. Is easier to get up&down from the bunker than the collection area, but because the shot zone is larger, you can´t avoid balls in the collection area and been shortsided.

No.

For almost all amateurs, short sided is better than a bunker. Particularly a longer bunker shot.

7 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

If you are a really bad bunker player then been shortsided is not your problem anymore, to avoid that bunker is, so you should aim accordingly to avoid it. Threat it as a penalty and aim away from it. (and of course go and practice bunker play right away).   

You don't have to be a really bad bunker player for this to be the case.