Rules questions re: shot alignment and putt reading

[jasongst]

1. When I tee off, part of my routine is to find a piece of debris or grass about 3' in front of the ball to aid with alignment. When I can't see anything, I sometimes swish the grass with my club to make a small visible crease in the grass. Is messing with the grass legal?
   
2. This is something I don't do, but I would if I knew it was legal: Can I drop a tee 3' in front of my ball to aid in my alignment?
   
3. Here's one for putting. When I'm reading putts, I seem to get the best sense of the slope using my feet instead of just eyeballing or plumb-bobbing. Would it be legal for me to walk along the line of my putt prior to hitting the ball, so that I can feel the slope?
   
4. Lastly, I'm pretty sure this one is illegal. My buddy likes to press down the grass behind his ball with his foot, to make it easier to get a clean strike at the ball. Is this legal?

Thanks for any answers!

[SubPar]

I don't think you can modify the lie by pressing the grass down behind the ball.

You can sight something in front of you to help align yourself, but you can't place anything there, or modify the area.

You can walk along side the intended line of your putt but you cannot touch it.

SubPar

[iacas]

I don't think you can modify the lie by pressing the grass down behind the ball.

Right.

You can sight something in front of you to help align yourself, but you can't place anything there, or modify the area.

Right. But on the tee, since you can choose where to put your ball, I recommend using something that's already there (an old divot, a piece of a tee, a shiny piece of grass, whatever) and lining yourself up with that. In other words, choose to put your ball in line with some object - don't put some object in line with your ball.

You can walk along side the intended line of your putt but you cannot touch it.

You can touch the line of your putt to fix a ball mark (not a change) and you can brush loose impediments, etc. out of the way of your line. You can walk alongside your line, too, as SubPar says.

Why would you want to walk ON your line? You might scuff it up. Just walk near to (beside) it.

[jasongst]

Thank you both for the answers!

Why would you want to walk ON your line? You might scuff it up. Just walk near to (beside) it.

Because I'm of the belief that walking on a line has unpredictable effects, not necessarily negative. Maybe it's just the greens I play on, but walking on someone's line seems more likely to improve their roll than to hurt it. The grass just doesn't deform at all when you walk on it.

Oh, and the other reason I'd want to walk on my line is because being a foot or two inside or outside of my line could give me an entirely different read. Are we sure it's illegal? :( Seems like the "line" would be too nebulous to make a ruling on the course. It's good to know walking beside it is OK though. Thanks again!

[iacas]

Oh, and the other reason I'd want to walk on my line is because being a foot or two inside or outside of my line could give me an entirely different read.

Oh poppycock. C'mon, learn to read greens the normal way if for no other reason than that if you get in the habit as you're saying, you'll eventually be walking in other people's lines fairly frequently, and that's not cool at all.

[JKilgore44]

not cool at all, indeed. I typically will walk beside my line to the other side of the cup to get a reverse look at the putt (180 degree difference, then walk back along the other side. Almost as though I have viewed the putt from every angle. However, I can't understand why you would want to walk directly down your line. If you stumbled the slightest bit, your spikes would really mess your line up. Even turning up two or three grains could knock your putt off-line.

But do as you wish, just please remember to step over your partners line!

[jasongst]

not cool at all, indeed. I typically will walk beside my line to the other side of the cup to get a reverse look at the putt (180 degree difference, then walk back along the other side. Almost as though I have viewed the putt from every angle. However, I can't understand why you would want to walk directly down your line. If you stumbled the slightest bit, your spikes would really mess your line up. Even turning up two or three grains could knock your putt off-line.

Don't worry, I'm very conscious of other peoples' lines. That doesn't mean I don't think the whole thing is silly :)

Are you the first person to play your greens every morning? If not then plenty of people have been stepping on your line all day, and there are grains going upways, downways, leftways, and rightways, and by stepping on your line you're just as likely to fix something as you are to upset it. I think it's entirely a mental thing. Which, by the way, is good enough reason to keep people off your line. You gotta have confidence over the ball.

[SubPar]

Thank you both for the answers!

I don't mean to be rude, but walking on your line to "read" a putt may be the silliest thing I've ever heard. Like iacas said you can touch the line to remove trash or repair a ball mark, but you cannot touch the line to "test" the green. Personally, if you were playing with me, I'd be happy to let you walk on your own line, as many times as you wish.

SubPar

[JKilgore44]

Are you the first person to play your greens every morning? If not then plenty of people have been stepping on your line all day, and there are grains going upways, downways, leftways, and rightways, and by stepping on your line you're just as likely to fix something as you are to upset it. I think it's entirely a mental thing. Which, by the way, is good enough reason to keep people off your line. You gotta have confidence over the ball.

You make two good points there. Well played sir, well played....

[i-Guy]

Right. But on the tee, since you can choose where to put your ball, I recommend using something that's already there (an old divot, a piece of a tee, a shiny piece of grass, whatever) and lining yourself up with that. In other words, choose to put your ball in line with some object - don't put some object in line with your ball.

Exactly...if I find a divot (filled or not) that is going in the direction I want to swing I will use it and tee my ball right behind it...then I just try to swing down the line...

[martin00015]

1. When I tee off, part of my routine is to find a piece of debris or grass about 3' in front of the ball to aid with alignment. When I can't see anything, I sometimes swish the grass with my club to make a small visible crease in the grass. Is messing with the grass legal?
2. This is something I don't do, but I would if I knew it was legal: Can I drop a tee 3' in front of my ball to aid in my alignment?
3. Here's one for putting. When I'm reading putts, I seem to get the best sense of the slope using my feet instead of just eyeballing or plumb-bobbing. Would it be legal for me to walk along the line of my putt prior to hitting the ball, so that I can feel the slope?
4. Lastly, I'm pretty sure this one is illegal. My buddy likes to press down the grass behind his ball with his foot, to make it easier to get a clean strike at the ball. Is this legal?

To summarise your position:

1. Finding a prominent mark to line up on is OK. Creating a mark is not allowed. Rule 8-2 2. As above, creating an alignment mark is not allowed. 3. Alongside, OK. walking on the line breaks rule 16-1a. 4. Improving the lie is illegal (except on the tee). Rule 13-2. Decisions 8-2a/2, 13-2/3 and 16-1a/12 are helpful And hi everyone, by the way. This is my first contribution here.

[NM Golf]

Don't worry, I'm very conscious of other peoples' lines. That doesn't mean I don't think the whole thing is silly :)

Its not a mental thing at all. There is a difference between somebody stepping on my line 10 minutes as opposed to 30 seconds before I putt. This is especially true on soft greens. You can see every single footprint on soft greens but they disappear after a few minutes.

Listen, learn to read greens the correct way. Plus I have serious doubts that walking on your line would be a good way to get a read anyway. What, are you playing in bare feet like that nut job on The Big Break? Plus, it is in the rules of golf anyway Decision 16-1a/12 So its illegal.

16-1a/12 Player Walks on Line of Putt

[jasongst]

Its not a mental thing at all. There is a difference between somebody stepping on my line 10 minutes as opposed to 30 seconds before I putt. This is especially true on soft greens. You can see every single footprint on soft greens but they disappear after a few minutes.

Let me clarify. I don't do this walking the line thing, I read putts the same way you do. But I always noticed how easy it is to sense subtle slopes when standing ON the slope, which prompted the question. Now that I know it's a violation of the rules, it's out regardless.

And I still think it's mental ;) I play on some pretty gnarly greens though.

[pjsnyc]

To summarise your position:

Was doing a search for 'alignment' and found this thread which seems to contradict what others were saying when i asked a question in another

thread - posts 11-13 . So now its against the rules to muck up the tee box?

[iacas]

Was doing a search for 'alignment' and found this thread which seems to contradict what others were saying when i asked a question in another

You can set your ball on a clump of turf (of your own creation or one that exists already), and you can step behind the ball to flatten the area where you're putting your tee, too. You can't put a dent in the ground (or move an acorn into your line) to use as alignment, though.

From what you quoted:

1. Finding a prominent mark to line up on is OK. Creating a mark is not allowed. Rule 8-2 2. As above, creating an alignment mark is not allowed.

Right. You can't ever create something to help with alignment on the golf course. On your ball (and your clubs), sure.

3. Alongside, OK. walking on the line breaks rule 16-1a.

Irrelevant to hitting from the tee.

4. Improving the lie is illegal (except on the tee). Rule 13-2.

As I said, you can step behind to flatten the ground behind your ball. That's not making an alignment "aid" or anything.

[MellowYellow]

I was a little surprised to hear his friend couldnt move some stuff behind the ball to get a better shot. What ARE you allowed to do then.. When you hit in the woods and there is a pinecone 6" behind your ball can you move it? When you have a leaf ontop of your ball, can you move it if it doesnt move your ball? What are you allowed to do and what are you not?

[sacm3bill]

I was a little surprised to hear his friend couldn't move some stuff behind the ball to get a better shot.

I did a quick reread of this thread but can't find the incident you're referring to... But anyway, bottom line is there are very clear rules about loose impediements - in general, yes you can remove them, unless your ball is in a hazard.

[Fourputt]

I was a little surprised to hear his friend couldnt move some stuff behind the ball to get a better shot. What ARE you allowed to do then.. When you hit in the woods and there is a pinecone 6" behind your ball can you move it? When you have a leaf ontop of your ball, can you move it if it doesnt move your ball? What are you allowed to do and what are you not?

A pine cone is a loose impediment, of course you can remove it, as long as you don't move the ball in the process. You can't press down anything (grass, weed, brush, etc) to improve your lie except on the teeing ground. Doing so is a breach of rule 13-2 and will incur a 2 stroke penalty:

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play A player must not improve or allow to be improved: · the position or lie of his ball, · the area of his intended stance or swing, · his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or · the area in which he is to drop or place a ball, by any of the following actions: · pressing a club on the ground, · moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds), · creating or eliminating irregularities of surface, · removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or · removing dew, frost or water. However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs: · in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball, · in fairly taking his stance, · in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made, · in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or · on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).