Tracking "up & down"

[mruseless]

Hi folks, I was recently pondering my ridiculously low up & down percentage (11%), and thinking about how I track it.

The classic definition (I think) is when you need only 2 strokes to get in the hole after missing a green. But is this definition restricted to situations where you miss a green with your second shot on par 4's, or third shot on par 5's?

What I mean is: I'm a 20 handicap, which means that there are quite a few times where I'm hitting my third shot on a par 4 and I'm still 30-60 yards from the hole. If I miss the green in this situation, but then go up & down from there, is it an "up and down"? Or is it not because my final score for the hole is bogey?

The whole reason I'm wondering this is because as it stands now, this stat is not really an accurate indicator of my short game ability (it's still poor, just not THAT poor).

E

P.S. Thanks for the reply, ERC7.5! I originally posted this in another thread and it was removed for being off topic. So now that I can start new threads, I'm posting it as new.

[kregan]

I don't know if it correct but I count an up and down or a sand save if I have 2 strokes from that point... Chip and a putt or a bunker shoot a putt.

With a 24 handicap I don't really consider how many shots it takes to get to that point. ;)

When I get better I will track it in a different way.

[allin]

I do feel up and down means for par. You could track your total chips just like you would putts to give you a way to evaluate your short game.

[Left Is Right]

I think of up and down as not hitting a gir and still getting par. So on a par 4 if i hole out my 4th shot from 20 yards i would say thats an up and down

[StrmStlkr]

Yea, this is something that is still very confusing to me also. I have heard many different ways to calculate up and down and I am in the same boat as Mruseless. There are times that I am pitching on the green from 30 yards out for par and one putt and whoever I am playing with say "Nice up and down". I have also been told that its anytime you hit the green and then sink the next putt. If that was the case than the only up and down's would be where you one putt and every other hole would be an unsuccesful Up and Down attempt. Just doesn't seem right.

[iacas]

Yea, this is something that is still very confusing to me also. I have heard many different ways to calculate up and down and I am in the same boat as Mruseless. There are times that I am pitching on the green from 30 yards out for par and one putt and whoever I am playing with say "Nice up and down". I have also been told that its anytime you hit the green and then sink the next putt. If that was the case than the only up and down's would be where you one putt and every other hole would be an unsuccesful Up and Down attempt. Just doesn't seem right.

You've still gotten it "up and down" at that point, but it's not an "up and down" as far as statistics go:

Source: http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?130 The percent of time a player misses the green in regulation, but still makes par or better. (130)

[mruseless]

You've still gotten it "up and down" at that point, but it's not an "up and down" as far as statistics go:

Great reference, Erik!

I've never been to that area of the PGA website. I'll have to check it out.

[mruseless]

I've been doing a bit more reading about stats that people keep, and the "official" definitions, and it seems to me that there is a difference between "up and down" and "scrambling".

According to most sites I've read, including the PGA site, "scramble percentage" is when you miss GIR but still make par or better. "Up & Down" seems to be defined less rigidly. Most places seem to define it as simply getting the ball into the hole in two strokes when starting "off the green", whatever that means.

[sacm3bill]

I too only count it as an up-and-down if it's for par, but I also keep track of the number of shots from within 100 yds on each hole. If I make bogey but only had 2 shots from within 100yds, that's still meaningful as a short game stat, and this way I can track it.

[StrmStlkr]

So Eric, what is the difference between the scrambling stat and the up and down percentage of your program Scorecard then?

[iacas]

So Eric, what is the difference between the scrambling stat and the up and down percentage of your program Scorecard then?

Scrambling includes sand saves.

[DavidFehertysBike]

What i do is that whenever i make a par or better without hitting the green in reg, ill just put an "S" on my scorecard for save. Its just an internal thing ill go over with myself at the end of the round. Ill think about what I did but i dont keep track of my up and downs, so to speak.

[WhiteSoxFan]

I understand the official stats, but at my handicap, the true up and down stat doesn't help me fully understand my game and how to improve it.

I track up and down as any shot within 30 yds. of the green, whether its for par or for a 10. If I put 3 OB off the tee, and my 8th shot is greenside, I want to know how I did - did I get up and down for the 10 or did I two-putt and make an 11. I only give myself one opportunity per hole. If I put my 9th shot over the green and have to chip again on the 10th, I count that as a missed up and down, even if I get up and down from the 10th shot.

Use it whatever way helps you track whatever it is you want to track to improve your game. At my handicap, this way works for me.

[mruseless]

I understand the official stats, but at my handicap, the true up and down stat doesn't help me fully understand my game and how to improve it.

That's more or less what I've been doing, but instead using the 60 yd mark that I use to define the "Pitches/Chips" stat that I use. I track my number of shots inside 60 yds (excluding putts), and I had been tracking up & down from there. But now I'm considering tracking the up & down stat from somewhere inside the 60 yd mark.