Bridgestone B330 vs. Titleist Pro V1x vs. Taylormade TP Red

[iacas]

P.S. The "Nike site" doesn't talk much, if at all, about launch angles.

BTW, as a follow-up, the back of the sleeves of the golf balls DO talk about trajectory, and according to Nike they've defined trajectory as the total shot height the average player will achieve.

The Black is given a "mid" trajectory and the Platinum is given a "mid to high" trajectory, but they're not talking about initial launch, which is all I've been talking about. The Platinum launches lower but, due to the spin, will often climb a bit higher (hence "mid to high "), overall, than the Black. It really depends on your swing shape, though, which is why they give you the "mid to high" range. It might only climb as high as the Black (also "mid"). But basically, "trajectory" for Nike is not the same as "launch" that other companies tend to talk about.

[wtd]

According to the Nike reps I've talked with, you're wrong. It's fairly sad, then, that their reps don't get that right, but I've seen reps get all sorts of things wrong, so it's not entirely surprising.

Sell clubs by any means necessary, I suppose.

Think about it this way: why would anyone want a high-launch, high spin ball? Balloon city. Also, why would anyone want a low-launch, low-spin ball?

Well, if one has a tendency to hit the ball abnormally high (18* launch angle with a 9.5 head), and are trying to fight the occasional slice, then low launch/low spin, makes some sense.

No doubt there's an underling swing flaw that needs to be addressed, but why worry about that if there's a magic ball. In all seriousness though, what I was told, factual or otherwise, was that to lower my launch angle I should tee the ball lower (which I question for other reasons), think about an 8.5* head, and go with the Nike One Black b/c of the low launch characteristics. I guess launch vs. trajectory is a whole other thing, but your point is taken.

If you're truly a 20 handicap, quite frankly, I'm not sure why you'd be getting fit with these balls anyway.

I wasn't being fit for these balls so much as it was a Nike event, on an indoor simulator, so no surprise, everyone was given a selection of Nike One Platinum and Blacks to hit.

I'm not sure I agree with your implication that high handicappers shouldn't play premium balls. I can't speak for all of us, but in many cases, high scores are the result of the inconsistency, rather than an general inability to hit a golf ball with any degree of distance or accuracy. If you play to a 20, but can keep the ball in play (the short game is where I lose 99% of my strokes - damn wedge yips), why not play a better feeling, better performing ball? Of course, I'd be lying if I said I would actually pay $40+ per dozen for balls. While I do hit my fair share of fairways, even if I'm only losing 1 or 2 balls a round, it doesn't make financial sense. I don't mind losing the ones I find though.

[iacas]

Well, if one has a tendency to hit the ball abnormally high (18* launch angle with a 9.5 head), and are trying to fight the occasional slice, then low launch/low spin, makes some sense.

No, swing lessons make some sense there. If you're launching the ball at 18° then you've got other problems going on.

There are no "magic balls" for small minorities of golfers who have swing flaws like that. If there were, you'd see drivers for those people too - the hypothetical golfer you've described here might do well with a 0° driver rather than a different ball.

I'm not sure I agree with your implication that high handicappers shouldn't play premium balls.

I don't agree with it either. It's a generalization. If you're an exception, so be it, and you'd know far better than I would be if you were.

For the most part, 20 handicappers aren't super-accurate and most don't lose all 20 strokes around the greens. And on their bad days, they're 24+ handicaps. On their good days, 19-21. That's bogey golf. If you're truly losing all your shots around the greens, with a little practice, you could be a 6 handicap inside of a month.

I can't speak for all of us, but in many cases, high scores are the result of the inconsistency, rather than an general inability to hit a golf ball with any degree of distance or accuracy.

For most - and I play with plenty of 20s unfortunately (you can't beat a bunch of 20s in a skins game very often) - it's inconsistency

of contact , which indeed leads to inconsistent distance, direction, and everything else. Usually their short games are pretty consistent, frankly: they rarely get up and down, but they don't three-putt every other hole either.

If you play to a 20, but can keep the ball in play (the short game is where I lose 99% of my strokes - damn wedge yips), why not play a better feeling, better performing ball?

Congratulations on being the exception. Now work on your short game.

Now, let's get back on topic (me too).

[justinp]

Just got back from the pro shop at lunch after reading this thread. The guy working there told me the TP Black is TM's answer to the Pro V1 and the TP Red is the answer to the Pro V1x.

It's all very confusing even if you read the info. I ended up buying a box of last season's TB Black because they were on sale for $30. Last year's version has info on the back of the box whereas this year's just has tour player pics and quotes. Here is what I read...

Both Black and Red claim "Accelerated ball speed off every club for added distance."

TP Black:

"High launch angle off every club for increased carry."
"High launch angle and low spin off the driver for extended yardage."
"Higher spin off the irons for shot-stopping control."
"Phenomenal feel."

TP Red

"Tour-caliber launch angle and spin off the driver for increased carry."
"Tour-caliber launch angle off the irons for precise control."
"Outstanding greenside spin."
"Phenomenally soft feel."

Now, on this year's box the TP Black just says "For lower spin players", while the TP Red says "For higher spin players."

Interestingly enough, in the section with tour player quotes, Goosen says he uses the TP Black when he needs more spin on harder greens and he uses the TP Red when the greens are softer.

My head hurts.

[peter draggin]

I like the B330-S, Pro V1 and the TP RED
I am more partial to the softer balls, and I carry a high swing speed 114
my draw to the soft balls is for touch around the greens and the way they roll off the putter face.

[wils81]

Iacas im sorry but for all your ranting you are wrong.

The tm red is a low spinnig ball made for high spin players, similar to the pro v1x.

More spin creates more height so common sense says that a low launching ball must have lower spin than a high launch ball.

[RyderSim]

More spin creates more height so common sense says that a low launching ball must have lower spin than a high launch ball.

You are talking about height not launch. More spin may climb high but has a lower launch angle. Like Erik said, if you have high spin with a high launch it will balloon like crazy. A low launch low spin ball may not stop on a green.

[duff]

Correct.

I always thought the V1 had less spin than the V1X. I read that in the ball test article in Golf Magazine.

[jonanator]

Ok, I am totally confused now!

When you guys say more spin, what does that exactly mean? Is that spin as in it is easier to hook/fade/draw, etc? Or more spin as in when you are approaching the greens, you can hit and stick?

I don't really slice or anything and all my shots are quite straight, which ball should I go for? The V1 or the V1x?

[Cizzle]

Sigh...

Let's end this already, ProV1 --> TM TP Red --> Callaway Tour i ---> Bridgestone B330-S

ProV1x --> TM TP Black --> Callaway Tour ix --> Bridgestone B330

It's over!

[iacas]

Just got back from the pro shop at lunch after reading this thread. The guy working there told me the TP Black is TM's answer to the Pro V1 and the TP Red is the answer to the Pro V1x.

The "guy working there" is wrong. From the boxes:

TP Black:

"Higher spin" means higher than the driver. It doesn't mean higher than the TP Red. The high launch is verified.

TP Red:

"Outstanding" means more spin than the TP Black, or more than "higher." Tour-caliber launch is a lower launch.

So, TP Black = higher launch, lower spin in general. So, TP Red = lower launch, higher spin in general. So that verifies it. Straight from the boxes.

Now, on this year's box the TP Black just says "For lower spin players", while the TP Red says "For higher spin players."

I already answered that. People that want lower spin play the lower spin ball. People that want higher spin play the higher spin ball.

It's not about "getting back to some normal" stage. Tiger Woods likes lots of spin. He's a "higher spin player" and he'd play the ball "for higher spin players."

Iacas im sorry but for all your ranting you are wrong.

With all due respect, no, I'm not. I'm sorry, but Dean Snell himself said the things, we've written articles about them, and those articles have been approved by TaylorMade PR people, Dean Snell, his engineers, and others. We've asked specific questions.

The tm red is a low spinnig ball made for high spin players, similar to the pro v1x.

Wrong. I've answered this before. Please scroll back and read. Heck, I answered it just above.

More spin creates more height so common sense says that a low launching ball must have lower spin than a high launch ball.

Again, launch and overall height are not the same thing. Lower launch with higher spin might have a higher peak height, particularly into the wind, but that's not the same as the launch angle.

When you guys say more spin, what does that exactly mean? Is that spin as in it is easier to hook/fade/draw, etc? Or more spin as in when you are approaching the greens, you can hit and stick?

Both.

The V1 or the V1x?

Start from the green (putting, short game, etc.) and work backwards from there. Find the balls you like to putt with. Take those back to pitches and chips and keep the ones you like there. Hit approach shots and keep the ones you like. If you STILL have balls left in the running (unlikely at this point), hit tee shots and pick the one you like the most from there.

Let's end this already, ProV1 --> TM TP Red --> Callaway Tour i ---> Bridgestone B330-S

I tried that before. It didn't work. At this point I'm tempted to close the thread, because I KNOW I'm not wrong because I KNOW the people I've asked this question of aren't wrong.

[Dub]

Just out of curiosity, what have you hard about the Top-Flite Gamer? I saw it received a gold medal on GD's hotlist. I like to play the balls like the Pro V and B330, but I can't afford to spend $45 a dozen all season long. I usually get a couple boxes of those and when they are gone or scuffed too bad to use I end up switching to something a little less expensive (usually something like the NXT Tour or the Bridgestone e6+).

I picked up a dozen of the Gamers prior to my last round. I posted a review of them on here somewere.

Overall, not a bad ball at all. It is a much harder feeling ball than I anticipated...not as hard as and XL but getting closer to that end of the spectrum than the softer balls mentioned in this thread. They held the greens better than any other "distance" ball I've used. Overall I'd say they aren't a bad buy for $19 / dozen. For what it's worth....I stashed them in the side pocket of my bag and made room for a dozen Callaway HX Bite balls that I picked up today. These feel way softer....huge difference off the putter....just a muted note vs. the firm click of the Gamer.

[dave39]

Be careful asking too much advice as picking a ball is an individual decision. You have to see which one works best for you. When selling balls at the golf shop I always tell people to try several and use the cheapest ball that you like.

Ditto! I have had the same experience. If I am not playing my cheap but lovely Top Flite TL Tours than I am playing the ProV1x. I would play the ProV1x everytime I stepped onto the course if I could afford it though.

[mrconsistency]

I just love the TP Red, they last and last and they are a really good all round ball, cheaper than the Pro V1x and more durable than the Bridgestone B 330.

[lionelp4]

Just to give my two cents worth :-

I have played the two TM TP (2007) balls extensively for the past year. Iacas is correct in every respect. I tend to play the TP Black most of the time because it is overall the longer ball with less spin. However , when the greens at my club start getting harder during dry weather spells I find I need to use the TP Red for the added spin around the greens.

[MCRhea]

Murdock,
I've played both TP's and both ProV's and my thoughts are as follows (I can't speak for the B330):

TP Red=Not real good distance for me, and WAY WAYYY too much spin. I hit a 3 hybrid into #7 at Plantation (I see you live in Memphis, also) and my ball mark was three feet in front of where my ball ended up.
TP Black=Too hard of a ball, it seems like its almost too hard to compress (my driver clubhead speed is 102-107). It is probably the worst ball of the bunch, and I couldnt get the ball to spin on the green, resulting in 9 irons running off the back of the green.
ProV1=Loved the ball until I tried the X. Longer than both TP's and had enough spin to stop all iron shots into the green.
ProV1X=In my opinion, its the same as the V1 but longer. I can still stop all of my iron shots into the greens, I can work the ball like I want to, and like I said, it's longer. I added between 5-8 yards to all of my irons and probably 10 yards for my driver. Very satisfied.

Again, these are all my personal opinions and you should use what is best for you. For reference, I am about a 6 or 7 handicap.

Also, if you play the V1 or the X, Edwin Watts on Poplar sells both in the Practice (not X-Out) for $30/dozen and they perform just like the $46/dozen.

[gumpy]

Iacas im sorry but for all your ranting you are wrong.

Yes Iacas is wrong, not sure if it's this site or the golfwrx but there is an interview with the head ball designer at TM.

Plus it's pretty darn clear from the website.

[iacas]

Yes Iacas is wrong, not sure if it's this site or the golfwrx but there is an interview with the head ball designer at TM.

No, I'm not wrong. Go read the GolfWRX chat again.

Here's a quote:

Source: Dean Snell When you get closer to the green, where the cover and mantle work together, that’s where they get similar. Red is going to be a little softer, have a nice little check on it and Black’s going to be similar to what Pro V1X is.

That's pretty clear to me. Furthermore, I've already clarified - TWICE - the "for lower spin players" and "for higher spin players." It's for players who WANT lower spin (TP Black) and higher spin (TP Red) - not to get back to "normal," but because they like lots of spin or because they like less spin. More?

Source: Dean Snell The performance around the greens this year, probably the biggest converters that have gone to Red is they like the way the ball feels, they like the way the ball feels like it stays on the face where they have a little more control, it also comes off the face with a little bit lower flight with the irons. Because it’s a little bit softer, it stays on the face a little bit longer and can come off a little bit lower.

More?

Source: Dean Snell The new TP Red is in the low 80’s probably 82 or 83 and the TP Black is in the mid 90’s 96 or 97. Falls similar to the Pro V1 which is also in the 84 - 85 range while the Pro V1 X is in the mid 90’s as well.

In closing this whole discussion, the two TaylorMade balls are very, VERY close to each other. The primary difference is around the greens. Titleist has closed the gap between the Pro V1 and the Pro V1x. The gap between the Bridgestone B330 pair isn't that big. The above quotes talk pretty convincingly about what I've been saying. And I too have talked with Dean Snell, TaylorMade's PR department, and so on. It's a small difference, but it's fairly clear.