Arms at address

[JackieTreehorn]

Everywhere I see people describe the set-up as "bending over from the hips and letting arms hang naturally." I also see people suggest a) your elbows point at both hips and b) your upper arms rest on your chest slightly on top of your pecs.

By letting my arms hang naturally, my arms are to the left an right of my pecs, not on top of them. Specifically, parts for my chest are still closer to the ball than my arms so the arms are slightly blocked. I've seen hockey guys complain of this problem too. If you looked down the line at address, the top of my left arm would be hidden by my pecs. Furthermore, in this natural position, my elbows both point outside my body.

I often contort into what looks like a good setup but it doesn't feel as natural as described in golf instruction books, ESPECIALLY the elbows pointing at the hips part.

Question: Should I try to get my arms somewhat over my pecs (closer together) and rotate my arms so that my elbows point at my hips at address? Or should I try to make my natural stance?

[Razorhog]

I've been debating this somewhat too. I swear in Hogan's "Five Lessons" he wants you to pull your elbows in a bit, which feels unnatural. I probably need to read that section again. I had a coach tell me to just relax - if your spine angle is correct, your arms should hang in the right spot naturally.

[lolzzlolzz]

“Relax? How can anybody relax and play golf? You have to grip the club, don't you?”
-Ben Hogan

Hogan says you need to press the upper part of your arms hard against the sides of your chest. He says personally he presses them so hard that someone would need to produce "a terrific amount of force" to bring them apart.

Also, he says the arms should as close together as possible, and as close to the body as possible. Left elbow points to left hip, right elbow points to right hip.

The "pockets" of your arms should face the sky, not towards each other... then you know your arms are close enough together.

Once you do all this, as a check, you'll find that your left arm is fully extended, while your right arm is slightly bent at the elbow.

[Avid Golfer]

Everywhere I see people describe the set-up as "bending over from the hips and letting arms hang naturally." I also see people suggest a) your elbows point at both hips and b) your upper arms rest on your chest slightly on top of your pecs.

I believe your arms should hang to the side of your chest (pecs), not on top of them, and I believe if you look at pictures of the pros you will see that the arms generally hang to the side (look at the upper arms). If you look at women pros they have breasts in the way, and if they held the arms on top of the chest/brests/pecs they'd probably have them sliding and rubbing all over the place which probably wouldn't be good.

As for where the elbows point I view that as, the general area you want them pointed, not an absolute. Nick Faldo wrote that if you find your left elbow instead pointing toward the target at setup that the issue may be a faulty grip, or position of the left forearm. Additionally if your shoulders are hunched or rolled forward then your arms would be on top of the chest with the elbows flared out (not what you see in good pros). Therefore another thought that might help you would be to feel like your shoulders are pulled back, which will bring the arms more to the sides and turn the elbows toward the hips, and as Nick Faldo has said you can get into that position by feeling like you take a deep breath to fill your chest with air. Below are pictures of pros at setup (a few at angles) to give you an idea of arm hang.

Hogan says you need to press the upper part of your arms hard against the sides of your chest.

Hogan had a drawing in his book where his arms were tied together to try to illistrate that closeness, but David Leadbetter showed in his book

The Fundamentals of Hogan that pictures of Hogan showed that his arms where much father apart then shown in Hogan's book, and not nearly as close together as Hogan advocated to others.

[JackieTreehorn]

I've been debating between pinning shoulders back or freeing up the arms past my chest (both not exactly tension free). I will lean toward pinning shoulders back, which does promote tension in my back muscles but not too much in my arms.

[lolzzlolzz]

I believe your arms should hang to the side of your chest (pecs), not on top of them, and I believe if you look at pictures of the pros you will see that the arms generally hang to the side (look at the upper arms). If you look at women pros they have breasts in the way, and if they held the arms on top of the chest/brests/pecs they'd probably have them sliding and rubbing all over the place which probably wouldn't be good.

I heard about Leadbetter's book; I also heard about how bad it is, like most of his other stuff...

From The Secret of Hogan's Swing by Bertrand and Bowler: I'm not going to quote directly, but basically Hogan told John Schlee that it's true that his arms weren't that close together, but only in his early days and after his accident. Because of the pain in his shoulders after the accident, he couldn't keep them together at address, and had to train himself to bring them together once his swing started. He warned John not to mimic his swing, but to just learn the correct fundamentals: "I'm showing you the swing I would be using now if I were physically capable." Left elbow in at impact is one of the biggest "secrets" that Hogan only told a few.

[mikelz]

I believe your arms should hang to the side of your chest (pecs), not on top of them, and I believe if you look at pictures of the pros you will see that the arms generally hang to the side (look at the upper arms).

You are looking at the "list" (tilt) of the shoulders at address Hogan describes in his book

s . The arms aren't to any side. A shot from behind the player would show this better. It's almost impossible to set up any other way if you want your right hand on the club. I've also been hearing a lot that you need to keep your arms in front of your chest all the way through the swing (but I'm not gonna spend much of my Saturday morning looking it up). I'll leave that part to serious posters like GanjaGofler.

[lolzzlolzz]

I think I'm having a hard time understanding your post mikelz. By shoulder tilt, do you mean (for a right handed player) how at address the left shoulder is above the right shoulder, like in this pic:




Also, I have a question for ya'll:

The left elbow is pointed to the left. This is due to a "strong" left hand grip, correct?

[iacas]

The left elbow is pointed to the left. This is due to a "strong" left hand grip, correct?

Huh? Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?

[lolzzlolzz]

I'm just asking a question. What causes the elbow to be pointed to the left like in the picture? Is it due to grip?

[JackieTreehorn]

The left elbow is pointed to the left. This is due to a "strong" left hand grip, correct?

You mean the left elbows points down the target line? I've heard this is something you want to avoid for all grips.

One more question...what happens if your belly is real big and it blocks both your elbows at address? I am imagining the arms moving up the torso during the backswing and then back down as the whole torso rotates. Maybe that is what a good swing feels like now that I think of it. My arms tend to get behind me, i.e. a position where my left arms almost crosses my chest.