I never realized how ugly my swing is! Video

[QWKDTSN]

I have been playing golf a few months and haven't taken any lessons... Just looked at a few tips online and in magazines. My scores decreased pretty rapidly to low 90s, scoring 89 once, and I thought I was well on my way. I had to take a few days off of golf due to muscle spasms in my neck and came back to find all my momentum gone. I have been shooting terrible rounds including a 104 this morning, my whole game is messed up. I have no comfort in my swing anymore. My drives, which used to be very predictable, very playable 240 yd fades, are now slices. The ball will start left (where I'm aiming) and then be moving with so much sidespin that even if they land in the middle of the fairway they will bounce OB. That added several strokes to my card today. My basic posture feels very uncomfortable and I feel very off-balance when swinging the long stick. The video includes a 6-iron from behind and face on and a driver from behind and face on. These are average shots I picked out of the video I took.

I'd love to be able to hit the ball straight, and I'd absolutely love to play a draw. My home course has a lot of left to right sloped fairways that fall away down huge hills to other holes below - There are fairways I have no chance of sticking the ball to because with my left to right action it just takes one bounce and flies off to another fairway. It sure adds a lot of hiking to 18 holes. If I could fly a draw I'd have so much more confidence curving that ball right to left and sticking it into the side of the hill.

Will anyone please take a look and tell me what you see - starting with basics of posture and swing rotation? I know I am really armsy and my shoulders don't clear under my chin. I think my fade could be attributed to coming in strongly over the top and I see my club pointing right at the top of the backswing. Please let me know what you think.

[Dent]

Do you tend to slice the ball? Your takeaway isn't bad, but at the last second upon impact, you start going inwards towards your body. resulting in an out and in swing.

[shortgrass lover]

It looks to me as if you sway foward a little before impact, which can result in a slice, or sometimes a shank(trust me I just got lessons and that's what I was doing wrong)

[QWKDTSN]

I agree with the sway... I think that I had corrected my sway for a while but it is back.

Dent, yes, I slice all my long clubs... Driver, 3w, hybrids, and my 5 iron tends to have a baby fade... it is cavity back, so I have the feeling that if it were a blade I would be slicing the heck out of it. The shorter irons generally go straight.

My other problem is distance. I play with a guy of about the same handicap with a ridiculously fast swing speed who also, has good ball striking. He will hit these moon balls into space, and he's always asking me how I get such nice low ball flight onto the greens. I always just have to tell him that where he's hitting an 8 or 9 iron into the atmosphere I'm struggling to make the same distance with my six.

[Dent]

I agree with the sway... I think that I had corrected my sway for a while but it is back.

Definatly put the "Straight Back, Straight through to your target" Mentality in your head. I like to do this. Imagine a straight line behind your club at adress. And slightly drag that club along the ground smoothly along that imaginary line to ensure your bring the club straight back. Do the same with the follow through and follow through towards your target. That seems to be your main issue right now if you are slicing each club.

[Lange]

u have a out to in swing with your driver, something i have a problem with as well, very fixable for sure i've tried many things to fix it and you eventually find it.

[QWKDTSN]

I think I am going to try keeping my right elbow tight to my side through the backswing and downswing. When watching these videos full screen in slow motion, I can't believe how outside-in my swing is, especially with the driver. I think it's too upright in general. I am going to try working on letting my shoulders relax and turning my left shoulder down and under my chin, while bringing the club back on a much flatter plane.

I didn't videotape any swings, but today I was actually playing around with a Moe Norman swing and I was amazing myself with how consistent my ballstriking was off the range mat with my 6 iron and what a nice ball flight there was. Then I went out to play a quick 3-hole loop to try it out and it fell apart on the course so I didn't pursue it much further than tucking it away as something worth pursuing if I keep having problems.

[Dent]

I think I am going to try keeping my right elbow tight to my side through the backswing and downswing. When watching these videos full screen in slow motion, I can't believe how outside-in my swing is, especially with the driver. I think it's too upright in general. I am going to try working on letting my shoulders relax and turning my left shoulder down and under my chin, while bringing the club back on a much flatter plane.

just wait till Avid Golfer gets in here sometime, he will tear this thread up.

He seems to be one of the most experienced on here. He will most likely give you a thorough breakdown.

[QWKDTSN]

I hope he can spare some time for me. Avid Golfer is the man when it comes to swing breakdown!

[fusioncal]

I have been playing golf a few months and haven't taken any lessons... Just looked at a few tips online and in magazines. My scores decreased pretty rapidly to low 90s, scoring 89 once, and I thought I was well on my way. I had to take a few days off of golf due to muscle spasms in my neck and came back to find all my momentum gone. I have been shooting terrible rounds including a 104 this morning, my whole game is messed up. I have no comfort in my swing anymore. My drives, which used to be very predictable, very playable 240 yd fades, are now slices. The ball will start left (where I'm aiming) and then be moving with so much sidespin that even if they land in the middle of the fairway they will bounce OB. That added several strokes to my card today. My basic posture feels very uncomfortable and I feel very off-balance when swinging the long stick. The video includes a 6-iron from behind and face on and a driver from behind and face on. These are average shots I picked out of the video I took.

You have the exact problem as one of my friend's. I can relate yours to him. So here they go:

1. You swing with all arms. Yes, I see arms, arms, and arms during the takeaway, impact and follow through. There's no hips recoil - the resistance between your shoulders and hips on the top of the swing. It is indicated by your swaying there instead supposedly the weight transfer inside of your right foot. 2. On the side, your swing path is too vertical. Unsurprisingly due to the result of the all-arm-swing that you have there. Then you tried to hit the ball with your dominant right hand, instead of left hip and left knee that should've started the whole motion of down swing. The result? Definitely out-to-in swing path with an open face -> Starts high left then fade/slice. If you want to become serious, I'd definitely suggest you to find a teaching pro. IMO, you have to learn a new (proper) swing because it's tough to fix your current one. Otherwise maximize your ball pattern and take advantage of it on the course, just like my friend. Hope this helps.

[QWKDTSN]

Well, I had a flight that ran late today (but was fun!) but I managed to hit the range before they closed in time to swarm through a bucket of range balls, then went out on the course for a quick 6-hole loop, no putting, just focusing on ball striking.

When I hit the range I put just a few new swing thoughts into play:

1) Good posture, feel like the back is a little straighter.
2) Relax the shoulders, let them hang to clear under chin.
3) Use pronation of left forearm to trigger backswing.
4) On backswing, think about putting right elbow into right hip pocket.
5) Keep left arm low, bring club back outside, make a full shoulder turn keeping left shoulder under chin.
6) Keep right elbow tucked into pocket as long as possible while unwinding.

The first swing I took, the only ones I thought about doing were keeping the right elbow in close to my side, and turning around my body, not using my arms to swing up and down. The very first ball I hit was struck purely and it came off in a beautiful ball flight, with a perfect little draw. I was so excited I went back and did it again, and again, and again. I was hitting these little draws so purely with my 6 iron again and again. It was really awesome.

The swing felt really weird, but the results were not to be denied, and I kept at it.

Some thoughts:

Driver still needs work. I have my ball flight straight, or with a VERY slight fade. MUCH better than my old big fade/slice. Driver swing feels very much more uncomfortable than iron swing but I will keep working on it. I have a big mental block in that I am so used to aiming at the left rough to fade my ball (hopefully) into the fairway, that I feel so uncomfortable aiming down the line, I have a hard time smoothly pulling the trigger. I fear my ball slicing OB to the right.

When I went out on the course, I threw a bunch of balls around to hit with different clubs from different lies, using my new swing thoughts. The biggest improvement by far is the fact that almost every shot I hit with my hybrids were pure. I have struggled more with my hybrids than any club and they just take up space in the bag. I never use them on the course because I strike them so poorly, I am lucky to hit the ball 30 yards. (with my old swing, of course). Using my new swing thoughts, I pured almost every ball and they went straight, which is amazing, because they used to push and slice every time. They were unplayable.

I will go back tomorrow and bring the video camera to keep working on grooving this swing, and simplifying my number of swing thoughts. I will post it ASAP to see how it looks - and if there are any more tweaks I should implement as long as I'm doing a complete revamp.

[QWKDTSN]

OK, here is my video from today, along the same format as the last video. Please analyze!

[browntown]

There is a slight improvement over your first video, but still needs a lot of work.

1. Your takeaway is very inside. If you look at the section of the video from behind you and try to pause the video just as your club is parallel to the ground, you can see your club head to the left of your hands by a good amount. You want this even with your hands or slightly behind.

2. When you start your down swing you need to start with your hips. This allows you to come inside with your arms and clear your hips allowing for a more inside to outside type of swing.

3. You are all arms. Get those wrists bending and this should help out with your upright swing position.



A good thing to help improve an outside to inside type swing is to place tees before and after your ball on an outside to inside path. What I mean by this is place a tee 8 inches before your ball and on the outside of the ball by 2 inches. Place another tee after your ball and on the inside of the ball by 2 inches. Now start swinging between the tees until you can swing inside to outside without hitting one of those tees.

Can you hit off of real grass instead of mats at the range? Looking at your divots is also a great way of finding out what your swing path is like.

[fusioncal]

OK, here is my video from today, along the same format as the last video. Please analyze!

A little bit of improvement over the last one, but still armsy though. This time I notice your left arm is not straightened at address. Also, your swing plane changes at the top of the swing. It somehow gives me the impression that you can't handle the club very well.

Moreover, you're casting the clubs. Slow play the one with your driver and stop the video after you begin the downswing. I strongly suggest this site for instruction.

[QWKDTSN]

I just hit through three buckets of balls and had to give up. I am mentally and physically drained and I feel really frustrated. I had three different people at the driving range interrupt me to try and give me advice. I think they could see that I was not having an easy time and I know they were just trying to help but it really made me angry because there were certain things I wanted to work on and I don't think it is ever a good idea to try and give a total stranger advice on the driving range. It really screwed up my mental approach to know that these people were all watching me while I was struggling instead of just focusing on their own warmups.

[Avid Golfer]

I just hit through three buckets of balls and had to give up. I am mentally and physically drained and I feel really frustrated. I had three different people at the driving range interrupt me to try and give me advice. I think they could see that I was not having an easy time and I know they were just trying to help but it really made me angry because there were certain things I wanted to work on and I don't think it is ever a good idea to try and give a total stranger advice on the driving range. It really screwed up my mental approach to know that these people were all watching me while I was struggling instead of just focusing on their own warmups.

The main thing I see is your setup position being off, and that leading to other problems. Below I have taken screen captures of your swing, and tossed you up next to Trevor Immelman for comparison.

The main things I see off with your setup is your posture and balance. I would suggest you tilt from the hips more, and push them back at address. that will give you better angles (both body and shaft plane). Notice the tilt of Trevor Immelman's belt line at setup, and how his rearend protrudes out behind his heels. That position put Immelman in balance at setup, allows him to stay in balance and posture during the swing, and finally makes it easier for him to swing into scientifically sound positions. As you start back your body is in a poor position to move properly in sync with the arms and club. Your arms the rotate and seperate from your chest (most noticeable in the driver takeaway), and your weight moves on to your toes (notice how much of your body is right of the red line compared to setup, and compared to Immelman at the same position). As your left arm reaches parallel to the ground your back leg straightens (from weight moving toward the ball), and your club swing flat (from the independent arm action and poor posture at setup). To get to the top you've lifted your arms (and many other body parts upward), and further pulled out of your posture. When you start down your body dips (again changing your posture), and your arms, club, and body all move toward the ball further droping the club on a steep angle. Again compare how much of your body is right and left of the red line compared to Immelman and the position you were in at setup. At impact you are in a very weak looking position as a result of the way you setup, and all the movements you made during the swing. Immelman in comparison is in a dynamic position where he is able to clear through the ball as a result of his good posture, and staying in balance.

In summary, setup in a more balanced poised posture, and then swing back with the arms and body working in sync. Those changes should help you swing into better positions which will in turn give you more consistency and power.