The real problem with golf.....

[Bourbon and Coke]

If golf weren't a country club sport, I wouldn't have any interest in it. Part of the attraction for me is the difficulty, the tradition, and the gentlemanly demeanor of the game. Members of a club deserve a sense of entitlement because it's their club. To claim otherwise, in my opinion, is patent envy.

For public courses and munis, I think there ought to be a minimum standard that all golfers should observe. This includes no t shirts, no cargo shorts, no cutoffs, no demin. Players ought to realize that, while those things aren't necessary to swing a club properly, they are an integral part of golf's tradition. Part of the tradition of golf is that its players are a cut above the normal athletic rifraff; they are gentlemen first and golfers second. I'd venture to guess that many of the country club elitists you see take issue with new/young players take issue with the lack of emphasis on that aspect of the game.

[Smallville]

  Bourbon and Coke said:

For public courses and munis,

I think this should be an issue for the individual golf course management to decide and enforce if they so choose. For someone to say how something should be run when they have no financial stake in it is elitist and they should probably stay around their country club they love so much. If I were to happen to play at your country club, I would follow all rules and regulations, including dressing to the nines. But if you don't like how a club may or may not enforce a dress code, keep away from it if you don't like it, I wouldn't want you to get upset on account of all the rifraff and neanderthals (as quoted from another thread). If there are fees and dues and requirements to join a specific course, they can require you to dress in hot pink for all I care, but municipal and daily fee courses can do and enforce as they see fit, regardless of your attitude towards them.

[Bourbon and Coke]

Church doesn't have a dress code, but it's still inappropriate for someone to wear cutoffs and a t-shirt there.

[Smallville]

I'd rather have someone come to church, regardless of how they are dressed, than to not go to church because they are afraid people will look down on them because they aren't dressed as nice as you. But let's not go religion, this is a golf forum.

[Bourbon and Coke]

The point is that there are plenty examples of voluntary standards of appearance that don't need to be enforced with strict codes that people readily expect to be obeyed, out of respect for the activity and the other people there.

[Smallville]

B&C-;

In YOUR opinion. What I am saying is if the course doesn't see it as a problem, then what gives anyone else the right to say they are wrong? At least try to get the change made yourself if it really bothers you (by the correct means, i.e., board meetings, or just even discussing it with the owners). If they still don't see it your way, let it die, it's not your problem, and you said you don't golf at those places anyway, so really, what's the point?

EDIT: Just to make things clear: I am all for dress codes, they are great, and there is a definite place for them in golf. But there's courses out there that don't care, so let them be and go someplace that makes you happy. I personally play on the riffraff courses too and I'll dress the way I want to on those, thank you very much. I won't dress raggedy (in my opinion) but I will wear jeans shorts (store bought, not cut-offs) and sleeveless shirts (again, store bought, not cut-offs) if I feel like it and the course allows it. However, dressing "to code" doesn't bother me in the least, if that's what's required by the course I am playing.

[Bourbon and Coke]

Just as people will say that players who don't follow USGA rules, grant themselves mulligans, etc are not playing "golf," neither are those courses.

[Smallville]

OK, that's fine if that's the way you feel about them. Like I said, don't go to them. No problem. I personally like a laid back atmosphere better than the "alternatives" from time to time. However, I will give you the fact that your better courses are (as a general rule, though not ALWAYS) kept up better and can be more fun to play because of the conditions, not the dress code (although one can help the other happen).

[Billiam]

  Hoovedawg said:

People talk about the problems with golf and most of the time people mention pace of play, how expensive it is and other things of this sort. I think that the real problem is a small percentage of people playing it. These people are responsible for other people to think that it is "old rich and snobby" sport. Some of you all are like this but most are not. These are the people that disrespect someone because he isn't wearing dressed up enough or because they have 30 year old clone clubs. These are the people that can't stand to see a kid on the course and will get mad at or disrespect the juinor golfers just because they are younger. These are the people who freak out about rules and ettiquete. (I'm not saying dont follow the rules, I'm talking about the people that get mad other people in other groups fluffing their ball or taking gimmie putts. As for the ettiquete I'm not saying that people should talk in someone's backswing or walk in someone's line but if someone makes an honest mistake you don't need to be a dbag about it.) These are the one who tee off with a group 150 yards out. They just need to chill out realize that golf is not a race and the world doesnt revolve around them.

You are my hero. Your whole post gimmicks exactly what I think, from the people who freak out about rules/ettiquete to the people who have disagreed with me in the dress code topic and said they would refuse to play with me because I don't dress nice enough. All of the low handicap people who think they are better than everyone else (a lot of people on here) so just cut the act and get over themselves. A very nicely put post, something I would do but only I'd come off as more insulting and get more minus reps lol (you earn a plus one from me though)

[yeis20]

  Smallville said:

I'd rather have someone come to church, regardless of how they are dressed, than to not go to church because they are afraid people will look down on them because they aren't dressed as nice as you. But let's not go religion, this is a golf forum.

AMEN!

  Bourbon and Coke said:

The point is that there are plenty examples of voluntary standards of appearance that don't need to be enforced with strict codes that people readily expect to be obeyed, out of respect for the activity and the other people there.

And you feel this makes it right?

Please go on more about voluntary standards... I would like to understand better what these are and how these work. The problem with golf is the same as any other sports, the issues are just much more glaring due to traditions... open your eyes.

[justinmill14]

smallville, on the church thing, u are exactly right, u couldnt have said it better! great job!

[Mully]

I'm sorry Bourbon and Coke, but I'd rather play with someone in cut-offs and jeans than a person who would feel compelled to throw their clubs in a lake. That type of person would not be very fun to play with, I believe. Personally, I dress in khakis and a golf shirt because I believe it looks sharp, and for me, it's comfortable.

[Smallville]

Thanks, Justin and yeis . . . I'd add some more but this is a golf forum.

By the way, I saw in the latest Golfsmith Magazine, they sell Cargo Shorts!

[justinmill14]

  Mully said:

I'm sorry Bourbon and Coke, but I'd rather play with someone in cut-offs and jeans than a person who would feel compelled to throw their clubs in a lake. That type of person would not be very fun to play with, I believe. Personally, I dress in khakis and a golf shirt because I believe it looks sharp, and for me, it's comfortable.

i dress in khaki shorts and a Tee shirt, i think we touch base there.

[golfkid338]

  Bourbon and Coke said:

For public courses and munis, I think there ought to be a minimum standard that all golfers should observe. This includes no t shirts, no cargo shorts, no cutoffs, no demin..

I play regularly at two course, one is very upscale, dress code, and a surplus population of arrogant egocentrical snobs. Not all the members are like this, but many.

The other course i often play is a public course and is the epitome of a public course. No dress code, slower play and no where near in good of condition as the private course. Any day id rather play the public course though. I've played with a countless number of people playing with cut offs, jean shorts and flip flops and ive had some of the most fun rounds of my life with people like that. Most are extremley friendly and are playing golf to have fun, which is the whole purpose of it to begin with. I just think some people use golf or the country club they belong too as a status symbol which really irritates me. Don't look down on someone because they cant afford to wear a $80 polo to play golf or care more about having fun playing then what their wearing. Also, don't be surprised if the guy with the cut offs and backwards hat beats you, just because you look like a pro doesn't mean you are one. sorry for the rant and this wasn't directed at anyone inparticular.

[lookimtigerwoods]

  Bourbon and Coke said:

If golf weren't a country club sport, I wouldn't have any interest in it. Part of the attraction for me is the difficulty, the tradition, and the gentlemanly demeanor of the game. Members of a club

couldnt agree with you more it could just be where im from, but it seems like there is an unwritten rule, or written at the country clubs, that you wear a collared shirt or turtleneck, no denim or cargo shorts, and a belt. i agree old people can be snobby dbags, they suck and play slow as hell and most dont let you play through, but wearing a tshirt and cargo shorts on a golf course isnt getting yourself off to a good forst impression

[Fraser]

  Dent said:

No effence to some people on this forum, But I honestly don't like some Old Country Club Members, Mostly guys in their 60's - 70's.

I can certainly understand your POV having been a junior at a British 'country club' from the age of 14-22.

When my brother and I joined the club my mother warned me that the course had a higher proportion of snotty members than anywhere else in the area! I joined there when I was about a 30 handicap (!!) and in a junior tournament was in one of the latter groups. The 13th tee which we were playing off crossed just in front of the 11th tee. I hit my tee shot and it went quite a long way but into some longish rough so hit a provisional just in case I couldn't find it. I duffed my provisional and said to my playing partner that logically it made sense for me to hit my provisional ball for a second time just in case I couldn't find my first, and would save myself walking 200yrds up the fairway to walk 200yrds back. He agreed even though it was technically against the rules. I went to address the ball when one of the country club senior types comes running over from the 11th tee and literally shouts at me saying if I dare hit that ball he'll walk back to the clubhouse and get me disqualified from the tournament. I wasn't in contention so didn't see any harm in having logic rule over the rules but this guy wasn't budging...and he wasn't an official, just some guy butting in because he had nothing better to do with his day! My brother was also hit (with a ball, not fist!) by a senior CC type who hit his ball onto the green on a par 3 where we were putting out. He was playing alone, and we weren't even aware of him until he hit his ball into us. I mentioned that in another thread. It is those kinds of encounters that knock your confidence and drive new players from the game.

[Bourbon and Coke]

  Mully said:

I'm sorry Bourbon and Coke, but I'd rather play with someone in cut-offs and jeans than a person who would feel compelled to throw their clubs in a lake. That type of person would not be very fun to play with, I believe. Personally, I dress in khakis and a golf shirt because I believe it looks sharp, and for me, it's comfortable.

You'd be hard-pressed to play with me when I threw my clubs in the lake... since I was

quitting .