OB "rules" question for informal play

[Hey_Porter]

DISCLAIMER: I KNOW there is no legal answer to this question, and that anything proposed will be technically illegal and technically cheating. But it happens enough that even the most rule-nitty among us should be able to give a solid answer ;). To make us all feel better, let's assume this is a non-tournament situation and that you will not be posting the score.

Ok. It is a relatively common occurrence for a player to hit a drive that looks safe (i.e., no one thought a provisional was needed), but somehow ends up out of bounds. It is also fairly well accepted that in non-tournament play it is ridiculous to go back to the tee and re-hit, especially when there are people behind you. You drop one, either near where it went out or in the fairway where a "usual" drive would end up.

Here is the question: after the drop, what do you lie, and what are you hitting on your next shot?

[klaymon]

Usually, when this "informal" rule is applied, you are hitting your 3rd shot. When the guys I play with enact this, they treat it almost like a water hazard. Drop in the likely location and take a penalty stroke.

Technically, if you don't go back, it is a two stroke penalty for breach of rule. So, you would be hitting shot number 4 from the dropped ball.

[Eeryck]

Since the penalty is stroke and distance, if I hit and can't find the ball though I thought I could and there is a group waiting to hit off the tee box or close behind I drop a ball and take a 2-stroke penalty.

I would not submit this card for handicap and the round officially becomes practice after that.

Original stroke is "one". Penalty for stroke is "two", penalty for distance is "three", hitting "four". My justification is that if I hit "three" off the tee for the correct rules play, I would probably have a better shot than my drop for stroke "four"

-E

[Fourputt]

If you use that "informal" procedure, you are hitting 4. To be fair you have to account for both the stroke and distance aspects of the proper rule.

And you CAN still use the score for handicap, because the handicap process allows for unfinished holes in 2 ways. You can still turn in an 18 hole score as long as you finish at least 13 holes. The remainder would be scored by using par plus any handicap strokes that you are allowed for each hole. For example... Your course handicap is 13, and you leave the course after the 16th hole. The 17th is a par 3 and the #14 handicap hole, and the 18th is a par 5 and the #6 handicap hole. For those last 2 holes you would score a 3 and a 6 for handicap purposes.

If you pick up on a hole or otherwise fail to finish under the rules of golf, you can still mark your card with the score that you most likely would have made, taking into account where you picked up and how many strokes you had taken to that point. Same 13 handicapper in this example... On a par 3 hole you play your tee shot, then 2 chunked chips and before you chip onto the green, but still 30 feet from the hole lying 4. You pick up in disgust. You can judge for yourself how good a putter you are and either mark a 6 or a 7 depending on your expectation.

Then too, depending on your course handicap, there is a maximum hole score that each player can return for handicap, so in a casual round, once you reach that number there is nothing to stop you from picking up. That same 13 handicap player can return no higher than a 7 for any hole.

[Chief Broom]

For informal play most probably treat it like a water hazard.

This brings up a question regarding water hazards. What is the implied difference between a water hazard and out of bounds, or even a lost ball for that matter? Why are those instance handled differently? A lost ball is a lost ball whether it is in a lake, the woods, or OOB. Is the difference a throwback to golf's archaic roots or is there some other reasoning I'm missing. Fortunately most of the courses I play don't have many areas where OOB comes into play. But why do the rules make it to where you are so much better off having hit a ball into a water hazard compared to hitting one OOB?

[klaymon]

The only thing I can think of is water is sometimes an "obstacle", if you will. A pond in front of the green, etc. is something that is in the line of play. OOB is penalized a bit more I think because, usually to hit OOB, you have to have really dicked up your shot. This is just my 2 cents of course.

[Fourputt]

For informal play most probably treat it like a water hazard.

The difference isn't implied, it is quite clear.

For out of bounds, you are off the golf course. There is no option to play the ball as it lies even if you find it. Thus replaying from the original position is really all there is. You should pay a penalty for not being able to keep the ball on the course. For a lost ball, there is no reference point to start a drop procedure from. By its very nature, a lost ball gives you no reference to work from because you don't know where it is. For a water hazard... the hazard is still part of the golf course. Your ball may still be playable, and if so can be played from the hazard. If not, there is definite margin where the ball crossed into the hazard which can be used as a reference for determining a drop area. Only if the drop area is unsuitable, or if the margin you crossed is close to the original point would you take the full stroke and distance option under Rule 26.

[UP&DOWN]

If that happened in our group, you would be hitting 4 lying 3. 1 out, 2 back to the tee, 3 up to or around the area the last ball went out.

[Q.Q.Quillume]

...It is a relatively common occurrence for a player to hit a drive that looks safe (i.e., no one thought a provisional was needed), but somehow ends up out of bounds...

I disagree with your premise. It seems to me it's an exceptionally rare occurrence when a player hits a drive that looks "safe" and the ball ends up out of bounds. I don't actually recall ever seeing that happen. On the other hand I recall hearing lots of playing partners saying, "That could be out; I'm going to hit a provisional ball."

[Mr Eagle]

In our society an out of bounds is a pick up and a double bogie or a blobbed hole (stableford) There are times when you cant go back to the tee ,If in Doubt take a Provisional.

[bruce]

Your hitting your 4th shot,you have to allow for the three of the tee,so after you hit your provisional the next shot would be your fourth.

[rwise44]

I would drop from the point of where the ball exited the fairway, A club length and take a one stroke penalty. You would be hitting three if it were your drive that went out.

[Fourputt]

I would drop from the point of where the ball exited the fairway, A club length and take a one stroke penalty. You would be hitting three if it were your drive that went out.

Boy,you really are generous.

That's not even a close approximation of the rule.

[Smallville]

I agree with the majority so far . . .if you're gonna do it, drop and be hitting four from there.

[Stacey_E]

If you are doing it, I'd say you are hitting 4. Reason being that if you played out the scenario where you actually DID hit a provisional, than that is exactly what you would be hitting (assuming you put your second drive in play).

[retozimmermann]

Hi Guys

In Switzerland, where I'm from, any normal round wouldn't count for your handicap anyway, so any non-tournament round is normally "just practice" and hence the rules in these cases don't necessarily need to be enforced that strictly. In all the rounds where said OB situation occurred, we usually played shot three, well knowing that it wasn't quite right, but I never thought about it much.

This discussion has changed my mind. I completely agree with the 4th-shot-group and will henceforth make it a point to apply this rule.

Thanks for the interesting question
Reto

[mkoreiwo]

DISCLAIMER: I KNOW there is no legal answer to this question, and that anything proposed will be technically illegal and technically cheating. But it happens enough that even the most rule-nitty among us should be able to give a solid answer ;). To make us all feel better, let's assume this is a non-tournament situation and that you will not be posting the score.

Well, with the groups I play with, you're hitting your third. Yes, technically that is not correct, but the situation you describe is pretty specific. I have had the exact thing happen to me on a hole: my partners all said I'd be fine, but - couldn't find the ball - dropped and hit 3.....