Florida Greens have been driving me nuts until..

[bigoak]

I haven't be able to figure out this grain thing with this grass. I look at the edge of the cup and don't see anything. Shiny an dull doesn't register either. But last round I tried every putt to break in the direction of the Sun and had my best day putting. Was this a fluke or am I on to something?

[Jcp907]

I haven't be able to figure out this grain thing with this grass. I look at the edge of the cup and don't see anything. Shiny an dull doesn't register either. But last round I tried every putt to break in the direction of the Sun and had my best day putting. Was this a fluke or am I on to something?

In Harvey Pennick's Red book it's discussed how Hogan asked his caddy at a certain club which way was due west? He goes on to mention how Hogan realized the greens will break to the west, if all else is equal.

[TinCupTampa]

Yes... in Florida... Bermuda grass follows the sun.

[jorruss]

It took me about 2 years to figure out the grain on my home course when I moved to FL. There is no magic trick to putt well on grainy greens. You can get a general idea of which way the grass is growing, but you still have to guess how much it will affect a putt.

There are a few tricks that can help you, but it takes time and practice to apply them effectively.

The grain generally follows either the direction in which water drains off the green or it grows towards the setting sun. On severe slopes it will grow towards the drainage path. The shiny/dark rule works also. Look at a putt from both behind the ball and behind the hole. If the grass on the green looks "shiny" or is a lighter shade than the grass in the other direction, it means you are down grain and the putt will be faster and roll out a bit more. When the grass is growing away from you it reflects the light at a different angle than when it's growing towards you, that's why it looks different.

If you see no change in color, look from the sides as you may have a cross grain putt. Cross grain putts are even more frustrating, because even if the slope of the green indicates that a putt will break slightly from left to right, the grain may hold it. Conversely, a right to left putt with right to left grain might break quite a bit more that it appears.

To help you learn the grain on greens, take your putter and drag it along the green in each direction. When it starts to hop and the grass pops up, you are going against the grain. * Keep in mind, that doing this is against the rules! (see rule 16-1d)* Do this only in a practice round or better yet, on the practice green!

[David in FL]

I love FL and playing year-round, but I sure miss bent greens......!

[Jay-Bird]

Two weeks ago I played at Victoria Hills. I left birdie putts short (upgrain) on the first four holes in a row. That 8-putt par, par, par, par start didn't give me any confidence for the rest of the round...

The affect of the grain on the ball on the bermuda greens in Hawaii is even more pronounced. I missed downhill, upgrain putts well short; and missed downgrain, uphill putts well long... What a game, what a game.

[TommyD69]

I feel your pain!

Up north, I can putt better than most, but as soon as I go to Fla, I'm lost!

It's a terrible feeling when you stand over a putt, and you know you missed it before you even hit it!

I get tortured for a week, once a year, and then I go home. But this time of year, I wouldn't miss the opportunity to miss putts for anything!

Stupid game... But I DO LOVE IT!!

[David in FL]

Two weeks ago I played at Victoria Hills. I left birdie putts short (upgrain) on the first four holes in a row. That 8-putt par, par, par, par start didn't give me any confidence for the rest of the round...

Jay Bird, Not to hijack the thread, but how was Victoria Hills? As I said, I like the course, but the condition can be a little spotty sometimes. Did you get over to OCN? Hope you had a good trip.

[jorruss]

There is hope for you yanks and snowbirds in the form of new Bermuda grasses they have been developing down here like the popular Tiff-Eagle. These new grasses allow the greens to be cut closer and result in faster stimpmeter speeds and less grain.

If you are here during the winter, most courses overseed the tees, fairways and greens with a rye grass, which eliminates the grain as this grass dominates the dormant bermuda. Rye Grass holds up well in the colder temps of winter in FL and makes the course look green.

Some courses now are painting their greens in the winter as an alternative to overseeding. Overseeding is expensive, labor intensive and can be risky for greens if the weather isn't cooperative. Most people paying $100+ on premium FL courses want to play on a green golf course, even though they don't understand that a brownish dormant bermuda plays infinitely better than overseeded rye. As a way to make everybody happy, superintendents have started painting dormant greens to make them look green, while retaining the playing characteristics of a dormant grass. They save money on seed, they don't have to close the course to overseed, and they don't have to mow the greens every morning in the winter. The players also like it because dormant bermuda rolls true and fast! I played on dormant tiff-eagle greens last weekend, and the flat putts were rolling at 13!

[Jay-Bird]

Jay Bird,

I liked Victoria Hills alot - tons of sand!. I was based in Daytona Beach, only made it to Orlando to go to Epcot with my wife and parents. I wasn't able to play LPGA either. Time and weather only gave me one day to play.

Victoria Hills was in fantastic shape from tee to fringe, but the greens could've been better. When I was in Daytona Beach, the high one day was 65. Anchorage Alaska also got to 65 that day...wtf.

[jorruss]

I liked Victoria Hills alot - tons of sand!. I was based in Daytona Beach, only made it to Orlando to go to Epcot with my wife and parents. I wasn't able to play LPGA either. Time and weather only gave me one day to play.

Victoria Hills had the best greens before the hurricanes came through several years ago. When it opened the greens were perfect, the best greens in the county. Once the 4 hurricanes came through one after another, the course suffered from a massive fungus infection on the greens from all the rain and standing water, and I'm afraid they haven't been the same since. They tend to come and go for sure. I played a State Am Qualifier there last summer and they were nice, but they still need improvement. They need a long, hot summer with the daily rain to strengthen the root system again...

[David in FL]

Victoria Hills had the best greens before the hurricanes came through several years ago. When it opened the greens were perfect, the best greens in the county. Once the 4 hurricanes came through one after another, the course suffered from a massive fungus infection on the greens from all the rain and standing water, and I'm afraid they haven't been the same since. They tend to come and go for sure. I played a State Am Qualifier there last summer and they were nice, but they still need improvement. They need a long, hot summer with the daily rain to strengthen the root system again...

Do you get out to Eagle Dunes off SR44 Sorrento at all? IMHO, day in and day out, they consistently have some of the best greens in all of Central FL.

[jorruss]

Do you get out to Eagle Dunes off SR44 Sorrento at all? IMHO, day in and day out, they

Yup, Eagle Dunes has great greens. Golden Ocala this past weekend was unreal, top 3 best greens I've been on in FL. Sugarloaf Mountain in Minneola is also fantastic. So far I'm pretty immpressed with the new Deltona Club. It used to be Deltona Hills. They did a great job with the redesign, and the greens are pretty good.