Rules Question: Changing the Ball Marker

[jwkde]

Ball is on the green, player puts a tee behind the ball as a marker and picks up the ball.

Then puts a coin on the green behind the tee (touching the tee) and picks up the tee so now the coin is the ball maker.

Penalty?

Does the ball need to bo back on the green, remove the tee and then put the coin down before picking up the ball again?

Thanks

[Pinseeker81]

I can't find a rule that would prohibit you from doing that.
If you're moving your marker to the side a clubhead's width you wouldn't replace the ball before moving the marker, so I would think as long as the spot is kept track of it would be ok.

[Fourputt]

Ball is on the green, player puts a tee behind the ball as a marker and picks up the ball.

I would certainly replace the ball before changing out the marker. I have done this before myself, first marking using my normal poker chip marker, then changing it for a smaller one when another player has to putt on a line near my marker. I always replace the ball, then remark with the new marker.

In reading Rule 20-1, it seems to me that by moving a marker anytime other than in the act of lifting or replacing the ball, the player incurs a one stroke penalty, the same as if you cause the ball to move. Changing the marker without replacing the ball first would appear to be a breach of that rule, so at the very least it is incurs that penalty. If he then played the ball from a wrong place caused by placing a second marker a fraction of an inch farther from the hole, then he incurs an additional 2 stroke penalty. (Moving the marker out of his line of play at another player's request is considered part of the marking process, as long as it is done in a way so as to ultimately replace the ball in the correct spot.) Rule 20-1:

A ball to be lifted under the Rules may be lifted by the player, his partner or another person authorized by the player. In any such case, the player is responsible for any breach of the Rules. The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under a Rule that requires it to be replaced. If it is not marked, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke and the ball must be replaced. If it is not replaced, the player incurs the general penalty for breach of this Rule, but there is no additional penalty under Rule 20-1. If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball. Otherwise, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke under this Rule or Rule 18-2a.

[Pinseeker81]

Rule 20-1:...There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball.

Would not the movement caused to the marker by changing the marker be directly attributable to marking the position?

Like he said though, easy way is to replace it to be safe.

[MiniMoe]

I have to look at the decisions on the rules real carefully, but I don't think you can move your ball marker unless you are asked to. You can't just do it. You can, however, ask your competitor if your marker is in the way and if he/she wants you to move it. If so, you can move it. Same as you are off the green. You can't just mark your ball because you think it is in the way. You can ask if it is in the way and if you need to mark it. That is no penalty. Another little tid-bit .... once you mark you ball, if you tap your coin down with your putter and it moves, there is a penalty, so be careful. Heavy coins are not a problem, but light ball markers move very easily.

I'll do some research and get back.

[iacas]

It's a penalty. Too busy watching the San Jose-Ducks game right now to look up where and why but yeah, replace the ball and re-mark. You can't mark the position of a mark, which is effectively what you'd be doing.

[Seven Iron]

It's a penalty. Too busy watching the San Jose-Ducks game right now to look up where and why but yeah, replace the ball and re-mark. You can't mark the position of a mark, which is effectively what you'd be doing.

Yep. Exactly

[Fourputt]

Another little tid-bit .... once you mark you ball, if you tap your coin down with your putter and it moves, there is a penalty, so be careful. Heavy coins are not a problem, but light ball markers move very easily.

This is incorrect. Tapping the marker with your putter is considered part of the act of marking. If it moves, then it must be replaced, but there is no penalty. Decision 20-1/6 states:

20-1/6 Ball-Marker Moved Accidentally by Player in Process of Marking Position of Ball Q. A player marked the position of his ball with a coin, lifted the ball and pressed down the coin with the sole of his putter. He walked to the edge of the green and then noticed that the coin had stuck to the sole of the putter. What is the ruling? A. In this case, the movement of the ball-marker was directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of the ball. Accordingly, no penalty is incurred and the ball or the ball-marker must be replaced. If the spot where the ball or ball-marker lay is not known, it must be placed as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole (Rule 20-3c).

[MiniMoe]

Years ago I was penalized in a tournament because of it. The official looked it up and everything. Either the decision was changed, or the official in charge could not find the correct decision and made a bad ruling.... which in not that impossible.

[jerry g]

so when you are asked to move your mark a putter head length, you need to replace your ball and then remark? i did not know that.

[MiniMoe]

you are moving your maker by request. You don't replace your ball to move your marker. Moving your marker without being asked to is a penalty. Changing markers without replacing your ball first is a different animal. You need to replace the ball, then re-mark it with the new marker.

[jerry g]

ah ok cool, thank you.