Slicing driver but with closed clubface..HELP

[right handed phil mickelson]

alright well i had this problem a little while ago and i think i know what you are doing. You are set up with a closed club face, correct? So when you swing, your mind is constantly aware of the closed club face, and so you are opening it when you hit the ball, causing the slice. Now, if that is not the problem, you might be coming across the ball. This is the typical slicer's problem. They take the club too much on the inside on the way back, and turn their body to correct it. But, they turn it too much causing the club to come across the ball, putting counter-clockwise spin on it, causing it to slice.

Here's the fix: take a laser pointer and tape it to the bottom of the grip on your club. Take a piece of duct tape and tape a line about 10 feet long on the ground (where you can swing freely, so probably outside on the driveway or what ever). make sure you can see the laser on the ground though, so go into somewhere where there is shade, or get a strong laser. now stand in the middle of the line of tape, and swing trying to keep the laser on the tape the whole time, back and through. This is the perfect plane. Hope this helps!

[breezy]

I would guess around 90% strength, but I do have a really bad habit of trying 100% full wammy if either the wind is in my face or it's a par 5! On the other hand if I slow it down too much it can go anywhere, I have to be reasonably quick or I lose all my rythm

Are you able to hit fades and draws? I only hit fades and draws on accident at the moment since i am still a begginner. But its funny how mentally when i think of hitting a draw i get a straight dead on hit. Almost every swing i make, (in my head) i am thinking of a draw and it gives me a straight hit. what i have changed also with my driver hits is that i lowered my power and at impact of the ball, i TRY MY BEST TO NOT PIVOT my back toe until i have hit the ball. The change that i've made has given me a better feeling of impact because both my feet are on the ground, and by keeping my toe down i keep my head still. I'm still a beginner so there are so much more i need to improve on, but at the moment by doing these little things it has given me a consistant drive and gives me about 200-250 yard flight and probably roll a little further. I am better at my short game so 200 yard drives are good enough for me haha..

[hippyboy]

Are you able to hit fades and draws? I only hit fades and draws on accident at the moment since i am still a begginner. But its funny how mentally when i think of hitting a draw i get a straight dead on hit. Almost every swing i make, (in my head) i am thinking of a draw and it gives me a straight hit. what i have changed also with my driver hits is that i lowered my power and at impact of the ball, i TRY MY BEST TO NOT PIVOT my back toe until i have hit the ball. The change that i've made has given me a better feeling of impact because both my feet are on the ground, and by keeping my toe down i keep my head still. I'm still a beginner so there are so much more i need to improve on, but at the moment by doing these little things it has given me a consistant drive and gives me about 200-250 yard flight and probably roll a little further. I am better at my short game so 200 yard drives are good enough for me haha..

I hit mainly fades, I hit the occasional draw but not intentionally. I dont really focus on drawing or fading, I just want to hit it as straight as possible.

I'm playing 9 holes after work tomorrow so I will try a few things suggested here, I'm also going to try a different grip. I currently use a baseball grip, I'm going to try the interlocking grip as my right hand seems to move too far too the left with the baseball grip. I only used the baseball grip as it felt more comfortable when I first started playing but I now believe (due to reading many golf articles & websites) that this grip is really for people with a lack of power or small hands. Neither of these apply to me as I'm a perfectly healthy 6 foot tall 31 year old & I wear M/L golf glove. A friend pointed out the right hand too far over at the range last night, I had never noticed it before, when I moved it back to the right a bit I was hitting a lot straighter, with my 3 wood anyway. But as we all know there is a big difference between hitting the right on the range & hitting them right on the course!!

[bogeyhitter25]

Haven't read any posts (too lazy) but try strengthening your grip.

[shortstop20]

Did you read what was written? The clubface was open to the target line, but CLOSED relative to the swing path. The ball only really cares about the swing path. It'll hook (or draw) in the cited example.

I misinterpreted what they said, my bad.

[breezy]

I hit mainly fades, I hit the occasional draw but not intentionally. I dont really focus on drawing or fading, I just want to hit it as straight as possible.

good luck. and have fun. one change that i've notice about my drive is that when i step up to drive, i don't rush or tighten up my grip until the slip second i am going to pull back. it gives me consistent drives all day.

[Williamevanl]

Haven't read any posts (too lazy) but try strengthening your grip.

I respectfully disagree. I think you should fix your swing and not compensate with a grip change. Record you swing and upload it to swingacademy.com. If you are coming down on plane with your grip and still slicing it then strenghten your grip. The downside to a stronger grip is that it will just mask the affects of a bad swing plane.

As I posted before, technically you could have a open club face and hit a draw if you come from the inside enough. I think if I had to teach someone golf from scratch I would have them use a weak grip with an open stance and have them practice until they could hit a ball straight: no strong grip, no closed stance, no compensations.

[Williamevanl]

I feel like I should back the above post up with a a picture/point. Basically I believe that nearly all amateur golfers are above plane accounting for slices. I think people that fight a hook are compensating for a bad swing plane with too strong of a grip which works to straighten out some shots but is very inconsistent.

Instead of just stating that all golfers I see are above plane I figured I'd grab some fast pics of people over on swingacademy, kind of a random sample off the first few pages, I also included myself because even though I know of this problem after 1.5 years of working on it I'm still above plane more than I'd like to be. *ideal about 45 degrees with driver?*



I could have done a little better with grabbing pics at equal times in the swing but If you go back and check the angles of each swing you will find that the majority of people low and high handicap are 5-15 degrees above plane. *me at ~7 degrees above*

Anyway your grip is probably fine, flatten your swing plane out. Find a way and when you do pm me and let me know how you did it because I'm still struggling with it.

[hippyboy]

I feel like I should back the above post up with a a picture/point. Basically I believe that nearly all amateur golfers are above plane accounting for slices. I think people that fight a hook are compensating for a bad swing plane with too strong of a grip which works to straighten out some shots but is very inconsistent.

I'm not really trying to get a strong or weak grip, I just need to have a consistent neutral grip & the base ball grip is just not working.

I had a friend video every swing I made (except putting) for the first 5 holes I played on saturday, I'm hoping he has put them on a disc so I can review them later. I feel that I have a flat swing plane with the driver but that can be very decieving without seeing myself on camera. I mean I feel I swing like Tiger woods on most shots but my scores tell a different story Does the swing academy website allow you to check the angle of you swing?

[shortstop20]

Does the swing academy website allow you to check the angle of you swing?

Yes it does.

[GDWindowpane]

take a lesson

[CalBoomer]

Hitting irons ok but slicing the driver strongly suggests that your swing is too vertical--at least while driving. Try to flatten your driver swing plane and concentrate on getting your right hand through. Use a mirror if you need to. As an aside, no matter what you may think about your club face, it has to be open at contact to hit a slice.

[CalBoomer]

So wouldn't someone who was aspiring to be a great golfer some day want to play a slightly open club face so that they can eventually hit that proper in to out swing that is talked about so much?

All of this requires some physics and geometry. The "target line" is actually not the reference for an open or closed club face. The reference is a tangent line to the swing path of the club at the point of contact. If the club face is closed to this reference line the ball will draw or hook whether the swing path is out-in or in-out. Conversely, if the club face is open to this reference line, the ball swill fade or slice whether the swing path is out-in or in-out.

Haney (Tiger Woods' coach) doesn't go into the physics but states very clearly in his book that it is the club face at contact which determines spin and not an out-in or in-out path. The physics and geometry support this--providing you keep the correct reference line in mind.

[Williamevanl]

I only partly follow that, It seems that only holds true if nothing is moving. Another pingpong reference *intramural champ here " If I held up a ping pong paddle facing left and you hit a ball at the paddle the ball would surely go left, basic angle stuff right? But if I wipped the paddle to the left as it the ball came in contact it would straighten out the ball flight and put left to right spin on the ball causing the ball to go right. *even though the paddle was facing left* hence a hook from an open club face or a slice from a closed clubface.

This is a simple thing to demonstrate, close the club face on your driver and come way over the top, you will still slice the ball. You might be right though with me having the wrong reference line in mind. I don't understand how the geometric line holds up with dynamic movement from one object affecting another.

So if you had a freeze frame of the club face coming into the ball say 2 degrees closed you would say with certainty that the ball was going to go left but what if the club was moving left at 100mph as that point in time occured? The lines would be the same in that single image *as if they club wasn't moving* but surely the ball would be headed right. Right?

[CalBoomer]

I only partly follow that, It seems that only holds true if nothing is moving. Another pingpong reference *intramural champ here

I'll try again. In the horizontal plane, the club shaft is a radius extending out to the circle the club face is moving in. The reference line or tangent line is at 90 degrees (right angle) to the shaft as the head contacts the ball. The center of mass of the club head is moving along that line--very briefly. If the club face is closed, it produces hook spin; if it is open it produces slice spin.

Here are all the possibilities for what you consider the "target line." Mass of club head is moving out-in with square face=straight pull. Mass of club head is moving out-in with closed club face=pull and hook/draw. Mass of club head is moving out-in with open club face=pull with fade/slice. Mass of club head is moving in-out with square face=push. Mass of club head is moving in-out with closed face=push with draw/hook. Mass of club head is moving in-out with open face=push with fade/slice. In other words, the spin imparted to the ball is not a function of whether the swing is in-out or out-in, it is a function of the angle of the club face with respect to the instantaneous linear motion of the club mass as it contacts the ball. I don't think I can explain it more clearly than that.