Should I mess with driver success?

[BirdIsTheWord]

I agree with you too, shorty. I'm not suggesting that someone NEEDS a long drive to shoot well. But long drives hold a definate advantage. No matter what, you have to clean up your inside game to score well. Everybody, long and short, has to practice their short game. More time should be spent on the short game than on the driver by far. And people DO ask for help with their short game, and get advice. But when someone brings up distance, it's like it's taboo. It seems like good short-game players who hit short off the tee refuse to ask/listen about gaining distance. Like a short hitter with a good short game wouldn't benefit from extra distance. I was simply saying that long hitters have a better start, or better clay with which to mold themselves. My main point was that someone shouldn't be blasted for hitting long, like it's a bad thing. Give a low-handicap player who averages 250-260 off the tee 40 or 50 extra yards off the tee, and they would be even better. All I'm sayin...

[Shorty]

I agree with you too, shorty. I'm not suggesting that someone NEEDS a long drive to shoot well. But long drives hold a definate advantage. No matter what, you have to clean up your inside game to score well. Everybody, long and short, has to practice their short game. More time should be spent on the short game than on the driver by far. And people DO ask for help with their short game, and get advice. But when someone brings up distance, it's like it's taboo. It seems like good short-game players who hit short off the tee refuse to ask/listen about gaining distance. Like a short hitter with a good short game wouldn't benefit from extra distance. I was simply saying that long hitters have a better start, or better clay with which to mold themselves. My main point was that someone shouldn't be blasted for hitting long, like it's a bad thing. Give a low-handicap player who averages 250-260 off the tee 40 or 50 extra yards off the tee, and they would be even better. All I'm sayin...

I hear you, bird, but you know it's BS when the numbers are extreme. If Vijay hit it 305 and 280 on a mishit and hit most fairways; he'd think he had that part of his game licked.

[jhawker23]

Whoa!! I can't believe this has caused this much of a strong response. First of all if this was interpreted to be bragging, it wasn't. I have been consistently in the 270 - 280 range max for over 5 years. In the last month I have been in a couple of scrambles with a team of guys that almost always have 2 or 3 safe balls out there so they want me to "open it up". The point of my post, and I guess I really failed considering the bashing, was that I allowed myself to make a bigger turn and not "worry" about losing control and it was amazing (i believe I also said that I was surprised and that it was exhilarating). It has only been a month hitting at this distance but it has been consistent. I feel like a kid at christmas every time I hit it.

I guess I understand why so many people jumped all over this because I still feel like it is too good to be true. My distance is measured by marking the ball at the tee on a SkyCaddie as well as checking the distance on the cart GPS which is always within a yard or two of the SkyCaddie.

I have been on the forum for awhile and never felt like a post asking an honest question would generate an all out bashing. I have a genuine excitement about this positive change and so many of you just sh#t all over it. Why? Is it really that crazy? I think my interest in trying to gain another 5 yards is probably the crazy part and I believe I mentioned that as well. I'm simply excited about a positive change. I also made a post about the Rossa Spider putter and how it has reduced about 5 putts per round, that didn't elicit 20 posts.

Thank you to the few of you who questioned the bashing as well. And thank you to the person who took the time to relate the distance to elevation. I'm at 5,000 ft. It changed all of my distances by a club.

Finally, I think it is pretty unnecessary to make a post just to tell me how horrendous I must be to be a 14 handicap. Do you know anything about the time I have to practice? To play? I just start hitting it longer and my handicap should change to a 5 in 3 weeks? This is all so ridiculous. I've really enjoyed this forum, I wasn't expecting to be called a liar or told how terrible I must be at putting.

[Iowa Hawkeye]

[BirdIsTheWord]

HAHAHA Hawkeye, that's a great pic. Yeah, I really didn't mean to bring the thread up to the next level. I meant no harm at all. I think your a 14 because you have a natural bomb drive, and you're taking your time to bring the rest up, like everyone else. I only got all passionate about it because I'm in your same boat. It's my fourth full season and I'm low teen, sometimes I shoot low. I actually haven't bothered to get officially handicapped yet, I just assume. I'm prolly lower than that. As of now, it's just a number, I'm beating all my playing partners, sometimes pretty badly, lol. The reason I'm "still" low teen is it takes time to hone them skills. But I assure you, it ain't gonna take me 20 years like some people, lol. I dumped at least 7-8 strokes last year in an eight month season with the same clubs. I don't know if that's terrible or not..doesn't matter, I'm moving in the right direction quicker than alot of people. All I know is when groups stop to watch you swing and ask questions, when you outdrive everyone you play with, and when random people at the range whistle and ask for tips, it's a good feeling. It IS like christmas. Then, when your putter is hot, everyone in your foursome wishes they didn't play for $ that day. Then you start thinking "hey, I must be doing something right." You really wanna show and tell people. But mostly that's because you want to know where you actually stand. Then you might join a forum or something. Then maybe a bunch of 250-tops drivers start comparing you to the pros, like Corey Pavin wins every tournament, lolol. Dammit I'm doin it again. Shut it, Bird! I just think you were addressing the longer hitters out there with your post. Being one, I took your side. I felt the same "shame" of hitting the mean ball. I know many people who routinely outdrive most pros. 300 really isn't a goal anymore, ever seen a long drive championship?? Yeah,,, Loud and proud, jhawk, loud and proud.

[tricky]

I think the cynicism is based on real life experience (the players I play with have been playing a long time, and play well - only two of them, both of whom are low single figures, have averaged as high as 280-ish), but there may be a number of factors that determine how far the same swing and strike cause the ball to travel. For example:

In the UK conditions tend to be colder and wetter than those where many of you play (corded grips for when it's too damn hot are really not a necessary consideration for most of us here). Consequently we tend to get less fly, and less roll. However we do get wind - often strong wind. At my home course we have a 194 yard par three. Into the normal prevailing wind it can be a 3 wood. With hard ground and a full wind behind I've hit as little as an 8 iron and reached (with run).I'd normally (no wind, good and flat ground, and assuming a good swing and strike - highly variable in my case) hit an 8 iron about 145 and a 3 wood about 235. That's a 90 yard difference in distance right there, just because of the wind and ground (this hole is pretty flat) - comparing like with like (good swings and strikes).

As well as these factors our course is hilly. Sometimes you're hitting uphill, sometimes downhill. With a drive, and particularly in dry, running, conditions this can easily make 20-30 yards difference in a finished drive length. Also our course isn't a straight out and back, it's constructed in (essentially) three circular sections, with a long leg around the far outside of the course on the way back (fifteen, sixteen, and seventeen are two par fives at 525 and 526, and a par four 475). A consequence of this arrangement is that sometimes you can have the prevailing wind helping (overall on average), or sometimes hindering (on average), on the long driving holes. This can drag ones driving average around a bit. In addition our course is tight, it's not long (6430 off the whites), but it's tight with miserly fairways. It's also mature. You don't need to go very far off line to be deep in all sorts of unplayable hell. I'm talking tight tree lines, 30 yards square of impenetrable bushes. We also have plenty of greenside bunkers and only one truly flat green. The three putt is a constant companion even to low single figures players. It's amusing to watch good players come and think they're going to blast it apart, only to shoot in the eighties. Really good players don't need to hit a drive all that often. For myself my best rounds are often constructed when I predominantly use the three wood off the tee. I'm generally longer than the club average off the tee for a driver. I'm also more wayward than average. I don't feel that I need to be any longer than my average (circa 250-260) from a good strike in neutral conditions, what I do need is to be a whole lot smarter. I'm six foot tall, strongly built, and athletic (play a lot of sports) - I am under golfed though due to other commitments and sporting interests.

In perfect, low pressure, warm running conditions, with no wind, and a wide open course you can wind up and bang a massive drive and go and easily find it. At Beeston Fields that approach can cost you two new sleeves of balls and a score over a hundred. I know, I've tried it many times. I have hit drives over 300 yards, but on average I would be more than happy to settle around 250 consistent and accurate. Because of all the variables that conditions and the lie of the land make, most of the time I'm not hitting the 'natural' club for the distance I need to play. The 'neutral' distance I hit the club is the starting point of a slightly complex calculation based partly on conditions and partly on trying to consider a safe strategy (if I miss this, how is the best way to miss it....). I've regularly played with long standing members at our club, and when standing on the tee none of us have really known what to hit. A good example would be our fourteenth. About 120 yards downhill. Flat(ish) crowned green with bunkers either side and fifteen yards in front. Wind can be in front, behind, or from the side. If the ground is hard it's very difficult to stop a ball landing on the green on the putting surface. There is a large copse (or wood) that is out of bounds tight down the right, and an outcrop of trees tight down the left that finish level with the bunker in front. It looks like the easiest hole in the world from the tee. It really isn't though. Depending on wind, tee position, and conditions underfoot, I can be hitting anything from an easy six to a sand wedge.

There are twelve holes on our course, where the driver is a legitimate option. I probably should only be hitting drive on about nine of them. I'd settle for five on the fairway, seven in decent shape, and expect some level of significant trouble on two. That would be a good round for me. Keeping the ball in play is way more important than how deep into the rough I can hit the ball. Good players aren't generally looking to hit the ball the furthest that they can, averaging over three hundred yards consistently on the fairway means that you are exceptional at that part of the game. Exceptional beyond my first hand experience. To have that level of control and distance with the hardest club in the bag, means that you must be one of the worst short game players of all time, to only be down to 14. Either that, or you're only counting distance, and not where it left you in the context of the hole. In which case by the time you're a fourteen handicap I'd have expected you to have learned that it's more important where you hit the ball, than how far.

I'm pleased for you if it's true, but excuse me if I make a mental note not to rely on anything that you say as a broad principle.

[jhawker23]

HAHAHA Hawkeye, that's a great pic. Yeah, I really didn't mean to bring the thread up to the next level. I meant no harm at all. I think your a 14 because you have a natural bomb drive, and you're taking your time to bring the rest up, like everyone else. I only got all passionate about it because I'm in your same boat. It's my fourth full season and I'm low teen, sometimes I shoot low. I actually haven't bothered to get officially handicapped yet, I just assume. I'm prolly lower than that. As of now, it's just a number, I'm beating all my playing partners, sometimes pretty badly, lol. The reason I'm "still" low teen is it takes time to hone them skills. But I assure you, it ain't gonna take me 20 years like some people, lol. I dumped at least 7-8 strokes last year in an eight month season with the same clubs. I don't know if that's terrible or not..doesn't matter, I'm moving in the right direction quicker than alot of people. All I know is when groups stop to watch you swing and ask questions, when you outdrive everyone you play with, and when random people at the range whistle and ask for tips, it's a good feeling. It IS like christmas. Then, when your putter is hot, everyone in your foursome wishes they didn't play for $ that day. Then you start thinking "hey, I must be doing something right." You really wanna show and tell people. But mostly that's because you want to know where you actually stand. Then you might join a forum or something. Then maybe a bunch of 250-tops drivers start comparing you to the pros, like Corey Pavin wins every tournament, lolol. Dammit I'm doin it again. Shut it, Bird! I just think you were addressing the longer hitters out there with your post. Being one, I took your side. I felt the same "shame" of hitting the mean ball. I know many people who routinely outdrive most pros. 300 really isn't a goal anymore, ever seen a long drive championship?? Yeah,,, Loud and proud, jhawk, loud and proud.

Thanks Bird, I think you understand what I was asking (for clarification, my previous post was not in response to your post, I appreciate the grounded view).

It was frustrating to see so many people not understand the post. I'm sure I said I don't even practice my driving, I am devoted to working on my short game and it has helped tremendously. I agree with nearly everyone on here in principal that long drives are not the emphasis for scoring low. Again, this is why I'm working on the short game. I expect to see my handicap dropping. I was a few holes short of finishing a round on pace for 80, possibly breaking 80 but thunderstorms darkened it too quickly to finish. That was a result of taking away three putt situations with closer chips and better distance control with the putter. As far as the accusations of not hitting 300+, I play a links course out here with a lot of flat fairways and a lot of roll. I'll be playing in South Dakota next week and I'll be expecting to hit 280 without the elevation on my side. So I guess most of you made the assumption I'm hitting this distance on a pro course at sea level since you compared this to the average distance on tour. So if not practicing driving and hitting a driver purchased for control I wanted to know what I could possibly do to take advantage of what would appear to be a natural talent. Maybe I need an extra stiff shaft, maybe the stock shaft I have, which was posted, could be replaced with a shaft more appropriate for me. That's what I was looking for, not a pile on of how horrendous I am. I'm done with defending this, I guess it is just a little hard to get over so many people flatly call me a liar. If it's not too late and there is someone out there who would like to address the question, I would still like to check the updates for helpful information. Also, if I return from South Dakota and hit 275 consistently, would you be willing to help me then? I'm not giving up on the good people on this forum. I believe this is the largest gathering of experience and knowledge of the game anywhere on the net. So, any helpful info is really appreciated.

[lobsterzilla]

anyone remmeber that arrogent golfers thread that got locked for trolling ...

[91wood]

If it ain't broke don't fix it...