Is my Scotty Cameron out of whack?

[bunkerputt]

I just received an order on a Studio Select Newport 2 with the plumbers neck and was wondering why I felt like I was fighting an open stroke path with it. I set it down on the linoleum and, when it is soled, it opens about 15°. Is it supposed to do that? I thought they were supposed to sole squarely. Looking at the neck, it seems relatively straight, but maybe slightly bent so that the putter face is de-lofted a hair. On takeaway, it almost seems like the leading edge has dug into the ground a hair and it drags for the first inch or so. I can't figure out if it's really out of whack or if I've got that syndrome where you just bought something and you notice every little tiny detail about it.

[CG031]

Hmmm. Interesting. I push a lot of putts with mine, most of my misses are when I don't rotate the toe through impact...Maybe that's your problem? I'm sure it sets up square, no?

[taylor_made809]

hmmm I have never heard that before. I just got a Scotty Circa 62 #2 with the plumbers neck and mine sets up square. It could be your grip or your set-up. Look in the mirror to see how it is exactly. Sometimes what you feel is not really what the case may be. Good luck

[bunkerputt]

I just had a setup tune-up with my pro and a mirrored set-up tool before I bought the putter. I'm pretty certain I'm setting up dead square. The issue isn't so much with the way I'm setting up, but how the putter reacts when it is soled. When you sole it square, as in the face is in-line with an edge of a floor tile, the putter swings open about 15°. If I were to sole it flat in line with my left big toe, the shaft would be leaning back pointing at my midsection. It's not possible with this putter to sole it so that the shaft is vertical. If you did that, the trailing edge of the putter head would be off the ground. So when you ground it square by keeping it from swinging open, it feels like the front edge has dug into the ground a little and it takes some manipulation to dig it out on each stroke.

[iacas]

The issue isn't so much with the way I'm setting up, but how the putter reacts when it is soled. When you sole it square, as in the face is in-line with an edge of a floor tile, the putter swings open about 15°.

a) who cares about how it soles on a floor tile?

b) this thread is kind of pointless without pictures c) the only way I can get any of the Scotty putters I've got to go askew is to sole them inappropriately - with the toe in the air, the heel in the air, a big forward press... whatever. Something odd. Without an image, we really don't quite know what you're talking about.

So when you ground it square by keeping it from swinging open, it feels like the front edge has dug into the ground a little and it takes some manipulation to dig it out on each stroke.

Huh? Either something's wrong with your putter, or something's wrong with you.

We'll operate on the assumption that it's the first one for now , but again, without pictures, we can't say much. Video would be even better.

[Elvisliveson]

Huh? Either something's wrong with your putter, or something's wrong with you.

Is it possible he is just not used to the concept of Cameron putter toe hang? Maybe, previously, he's just had face-balanced mallets or something along those lines.

[bunkerputt]

I think I figured out what the issue is. I compared my putter with a couple of floor models and they are all identical, with the exception that my putter grip is installed about a degree off. So when you grip it in the air, the face is open relative to the grip just a tad. No problem. That's easy to fix just by twisting the grip.

I placed the putter on a loft machine and noticed the following features:

1. The loft is correct at between 4 and 5 degrees when the shaft is vertical. No surprise.
2. The trailing edge of the head floats just a hair, maybe a millimeter.

This means that when you sole it square, the leading edge contacts first. It probably also means that the loft of the face relative to the sole is greater than 4 degrees. That's actually great because I need it at about 6 and don't want the trailing edge to drag, creating the opposite problem.

Regarding whether it matters or not... On soft greens it doesn't matter. There is enough friction between the leading edge of the sole and the ground that it overcomes the tendency of the face to fall open...which is why I didn't notice it on the carpet in the pro shop or when I was testing it out weeks ago. When I got out to the green, I noticed it big time because the greens were very hard and firm.. kind of like a floor tile.

If anyone has any comments about this feature of the sole design of the newport head, they are welcome.

[bunkerputt]

Is it possible he is just not used to the concept of Cameron putter toe hang? Maybe, previously, he's just had face-balanced mallets or something along those lines.

No. I've never used face-balanced putters. This thread is not about my stroke. It is about the way the Studio Select Newport 2 behaves when soled. There is no stroking going on. My earlier post referencing an 'open stroke path' should have indicated that I felt like the putter was fighting me and trying to open when it was soled. Sorry for the confusion.

[iacas]

No. I've never used face-balanced putters. This thread is not about my stroke. It is about the way the Studio Select Newport 2 behaves when soled. There is no stroking going on. My earlier post referencing an 'open stroke path' should have indicated that I felt like the putter was fighting me and trying to open when it was soled. Sorry for the confusion.

I still think you're probably soling it too much on the heel for the toe to flop open like that. I can make a few putters do that too if I sole them improperly.

I have the same exact putter and don't see anything like you see if I sole the putter properly. I can make it do that when I sole it on the heel and not flat, but I have to also have an incredibly loose grip to let the face roll open.

[bunkerputt]

I still think you're probably soling it too much on the heel for the toe to flop open like that. I can make a few putters do that too if I sole them improperly.

Wow. I just checked on the lie angles and my current putter sits at 70. The Newport is spec'ed at 71. I wonder if that's the difference...

The issue isn't so much when I stroke it, but when I build my stance. I first sole the putter on the line with it settling very loosely in my right hand, while my left hand is on my thigh. Then I step into the shot and grip it with my left hand. If it opens in my right hand, I either align everything right, or have to manipulate it to keep it online until I get both hands on it.

[iacas]

If it opens in my right hand, I either align everything right, or have to manipulate it to keep it online until I get both hands on it.

Again, probably because you're setting it on the heel. That extra one degree won't help you, but in the end it's one degree, so I doubt that's entirely responsible.

Mine sit fine when I sole them anywhere near the center.

[whip_it_out]

My father has the same putter, and just see if it does that I checked it. It doesn't, unless you sole the club on the heel like iacas is saying. Get a picture up or nobody can help you.

[bunkerputt]

Again, probably because you're setting it on the heel. That extra one degree won't help you, but in the end it's one degree, so I doubt that's entirely responsible.

I'll check just to make certain, but I'm a little skeptical. How much "on the heel" are you soling it. For example, how much closer is the shaft towards you in inches in order to get the opening effect?

[bunkerputt]

My father has the same putter, and just see if it does that I checked it. It doesn't, unless you sole the club on the heel like iacas is saying. Get a picture up or nobody can help you.

I looked it over very thoroughly after considering the previous posts. It's definitely the case that the trailing edge of the putter head is off the ground when the shaft is vertical. If I want the sole to lie flat on the ground, I have to lean the shaft back 2-3" behind the head. There's no way this can be the right way to hold a putter. What's nuts is that the other Newports I tested did the same thing. Does anyone else see this? Someone help me out here. I know these are supposed to be great putters, but it seems like a really strange design flaw. I mean, line the shaft up with the side of a window frame and see if the trailing edge of the sole is off the ground. I'll try to post video if I can figure out what to film. Any ideas?

[iacas]

I looked it over very thoroughly after considering the previous posts. It's definitely the case that the trailing edge of the putter head is off the ground when the shaft is vertical. If I want the sole to lie flat on the ground, I have to lean the shaft back 2-3" behind the head. There's no way this can be the right way to hold a putter.

Please don't take this to be rude. Not intended that way.

Your putter is fine. You have not uncovered some sort of flaw that every pro who's ever used the putter has somehow missed. Most putters sweep "up" a little bit because you hit the ball on the up stroke a little. If the bottom were flat, it might scuff the ground more easily. My Red X does it - it's probably even more important and pronounced on mallets since that back edge trails so much more - virtually every putter does it. Nobody else seems to have a problem soling the putter. And since you don't hit putts by holding the putter so lightly it can spin open (nor by setting the putter on the ground behind the ball), I don't see what the problem is. You may need to adjust your pre-shot routine (though I can set my putter down behind the ball without it spinning) or your setup routine, but your putter is not "all jacked up."

[bunkerputt]

Thanks for schooling me. I figured there was a reason for it. I played a round today with it and haven't had any problems. I decided it's better to evaluate the sole on the green rather than on the kitchen floor.

No offense to Scotty Cameron and his great putters. I should have titled this thread 'Is my Scotty Cameron out of whack?' or something more sensitive like it.

[chrt396]

Thanks for schooling me. I figured there was a reason for it. I played a round today with it and haven't had any problems. I decided it's better to evaluate the sole on the green rather than on the kitchen floor.

Don't feel alone. I'm going through the same situation you are on my new Scotty. First it was a mis-aligned grip. I changed it over a couple days ago...so we will se if that was the culprit.

[bunkerputt]

Don't feel alone. I'm going through the same situation you are on my new Scotty. First it was a mis-aligned grip. I changed it over a couple days ago...so we will se if that was the culprit.

From the Scotty Cameron Website: "Sole Draft Angle: Negative bounce on the sole that prevents the putter from sitting or looking closed. Allows the putter to sit open but never closed. Most players on tour don’t mind a putter that looks open but they never want to see a putter that is closed."

That's my problem. It actually does open in my hands and I wasn't just imagining it. It's easy in the spring when the grass is thick and the leading edge of the sole digs a bit to prevent it from opening, but it's really tough right now on baked bermuda because I set it square to the line, look at the hole, look back at the putter and it has opened 5 degrees or so. Then I adjust it, get my mind off the putt, get out of rhythm and voila.. complete crap. I wish I had known this before I bought the putter. The golf store carpet wasn't hard enough to reveal it, though.