Tiger's Poor (or Childish or Angry or Unprofessional) Antics

[AmenCorner]

He's not beating up hookers.

Wait a second, is this wrong?

[AmenCorner]

We are both putting our respective personal codes of conduct onto Tiger; we simply have different standards for what is acceptable and what isn't. Neither of us is wrong... or right. We just have different preferences.

Absolutely correct.

[AmenCorner]

I hear what you're saying, as well. I've thrown my fair share of clubs at times...

Again, using kids is a copout. Yes kids imitate people. But kids also tend to imitate people they can relate to. I love Tom Watson now (I am 32), but when I was a kid, I couldn't relate to an older guy that was even tempered and distinguished. I COULD relate to somebody who was fiery and expressive. The fact that you saw a kid that cloned Tiger is not surprising. If there wasn't a Tiger on Tour, he'd be cloning somebody else. Some kids are just like that. Like Iacas said, we have to keep things in perspective, he is getting upset, not committing acts of a felon.

[Gordo]

Point and counter point! I say let Tiger answer the question for himself - "Is this the way you'd want your kids acting in public?" If he says he doesn't want his daughter throwing F-bombs, then he should really look at himself. Bobby Jones changed when he saw how "spoiled" it made him look.

This is the only reason I would never agree that Tiger is the greatest golfer, ever. He might have enough control of the game to beat all the records, but the game of golf needs one to control himself, while playing it. A spoiled brat throws "hissy fits" each time everything doesn't go his own way.

Watson was heartbroken when he was carved-up by Cink, but all the public saw, felt or heard was the anguish on his face. Tom played the best he could and beat everyone else, but one guy - that is life.

[Cesar]

Cesar said: "Champions do it too, hence the point of this thread."

Well yes, that's because there is only one ChampION now as in playing today. Guys like Arnie and Jack are nice old guys now that nobody could ever imagine losing their cool.

But I'm sure you followed every single shot of their entire careers to be able to so boldly contend they never lost their cool on the course, correct? Did you also follow every single shot of Bobby Jones' entire career as well? Can you assure me, betting your life on it, that these guys were always the gentlemen they are now? How? I just get the impression that you and are ASSUMING that someone like Arnold Palmer was always as nice and classy on the course in his younger days as he is today at 70 years old. Were you an Arnold fan when he was in his 20's and 30's? Did you follow him around every single tournament?

[Cesar]

This is absolutely not true at all, at least from what I've heard from my dad and a few others I talked to who went to tournaments he played in. I heard he acted just like he did when he was on camera, my dad went to several U.S. open's and professional tournaments and said lee trevino was seemingly always a fun loving guy.... i'm sure he had his moments but i don't think he was always an 'arsehole' when the camera's were off.

Might be the case, I don't know. We're both hearing these stories second hand, but there a few stories out there on the internet that corroborate what I'm saying as well. Maybe they're untrue? Who knows?

I'm still a Trevino fan because, to be honest, I couldn't care less about this stuff. I realize these people are human and often fall short of the lofty standards people put on them.

Anyway, back on topic. To Cesar: I don't think anyone is EXPECTING Tiger to NEVER slam a club, or NEVER use a profanity. People just expect it quite a bit less often. It shouldn't be something you see during every round or two.

Then that is your problem. You, me, and anybody else here are in no position to "expect" anything from him. Tiger's ALWAYS been a hothead and there is a pretty good chance he always will be. It's part of who is, expecting perfection ever shot and getting really pi$$ed off when he doesn't execute. He's an emotional guy who is probably the biggest competitior on the planet in any sport.

And as someone alluded to earlier about Woody Austin's comment, Woody was absolutely right. There is a double standard. People need to get off Woody's case as well. Tempers have been with golf since its inception and will be here until the last golf round is played. I suppose you can always change the channel if you don't like it, just don't "expect" it to change.

[Chas]

Hmmmmm

Well, I can swear on a bible or equivalent that I watched Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson and many other golfing greats on the boob tube for countless hours in the 60s and 70s, and they behaved better in this respect - at that stage of their careers of course..

But times and mores (long "e", in golf and in life) have changed I guess, and Tiger lives and plays in a different age. Tiger is extraordinarily intense, it's what's made him the stellar player he is. His explosive power (that I've had the privilege to watch from a few yards away many times) is greater even than Nicklaus', but I never did watch Nicklaus up close and personal.

I am trying to explain, not to apologise for Tiger. My guess is that Tiger will mellow out with time, but it might cost him - and he may worry about that. McEnroe would have lost a lot of his competitiveness IMHO, had he become the country club gentleman all of a sudden .....

Note added in proof: and I would say that Tiger's behavior off of the course (e.g. in interviews) is truly gentlemanly and indeed exemplary to young and old alike.

[Cesar]

Hmmmmm

Well said Chas. I suspect Tiger is a little like McEnroe in that respect, or at least sees himself as such, which is why I don't expect much change from him.

With time, he will likely mellow out and by the time he's a senior will be the country club gentleman people want to see and most of this stuff will be forgotten.

[Chas]

Now THAT is funny.

And good post Cesar. I think we're all of us agreed on the basics here.

And it's also true that there's a bit of a double standard being applied (by myself included). If I were Tiger, I'd be making THAT point in spades.

[enarhi]

I find it comical that people are actually giving Tiger heat for his "antics". Look at every other sport out there--in basketball, if a player misses a layup or blows a clutch free throw, they almost always are negatively demonstrative, and often curse as well. In football, if a kicker misses a clutch kick or a QB throws an int, they will always display frustration, and sometimes curse as well. Favre does this, and he is a hero of many child and adult fans who never mention him being "unprofessional or childish". In baseball a pitcher often curses and/or waves his hands in frustration when a home run is hit against him, and hitters have similar antics when they get out in a clutch at-bat. It is expected in sport that a player will get frustrated with oneself. The unsportsmanlike conduct arises when this frustration is directed or affects other players, not just the individual. If Tiger were throwing clubs in the line of other players, cursing during their shots, or stomping around the green after missed putts leaving spike marks in another player's line, it would be unsportsmanlike and uncalled for. But what he is doing is merely displaying the passion and intensity of sport--it is foolish to condemn this display of emotion that is glorified in all other athletic realms.

[Chas]

Now there's a thought. Perhaps pro golfers should take a lesson from professional soccer players when it comes to avoiding defeat at almost any cost.

After 17 holes on Sunday and 1 down with a Major on the line, why not just make a "professional" foul on the other guy as the two of you walk up to the 18th tee - just enough to guarantee a poor drive at least. His putting will probably suffer as well. Make it look like an accident (as you clumsily clean the face of your driver - oooops), and with any luck the cameras might even miss the action if there are enough trees about.
[sarc.]

Yes, that's what we need - golf to be more like professional soccer, or ice hockey for that matter. Let 'em have at it ...


[p.s. I gave up watching professional soccer in the U.K. for just this reason. Too many take-downs, the really good players being the first ones to get targeted of course]

[patriot07]

Tiger's swearing is what bothers me. I don't mind a little club-tossing or hitting the ground occasionally (although he doesn't do any of this occasionally, it's much more often than that) but when a golf tournament becomes a PG-13 or worse event, that's over the line, in my opinion. I want to be able to take a 9 or 10-year old kid to a golf tournament and not worry about being near Tiger because he might drop an F-bomb.

For those who say Tiger's job is to shoot low, you're wrong. Tiger's job is being an entertainer. Golf is a sport that should be for all to enjoy, and most rational folks won't let their kid enjoy something that involves hearing F-bombs every time he hits a bad shot, which is more and more often. Yes, shooting low scores is entertaining, but it's not entertaining to watch him make an idiot of himself after every bad shot.

If not being able to shout obscenities affects Tiger's score, the PGA Tour should make that his problem. In my opinion, they should stop allowing him to swear all over the place. Once in a blue moon, like most of the rest of the PGA, is one thing. But he gets after it every time he hits a bad shot.

Lastly, for whoever said that we should appreciate that Tiger has toned it down from F-bombs to "goddamit", that is worse in my book. Now he's swearing and taking God's name in vain. In my opinion, that's worse than an F-bomb. Obviously some people think it's better, but I don't think that opinion is universal enough that we should respect his "effort" to tone down. No offense, just my opinion.

All in all, I don't care if he doesn't tone it down, but I won't take my kids to watch him play if he doesn't.

[Three Putt]

Who Cares? My older son and I laugh when he has his "Nancy Kerrigan" episodes.

Hell, I through my sandwedge about 60 yards down the course when I chili dipped a shot, my 12 year old son busted out laughing (No one else was on the course). I walked down, got it, walked back, hit the next shot and holed it out!

He beat me on 9 holes, he shot one over, Dad shot 4 over....so I just finished cleaning his clubs this morning (that's our standing bet).

[enduro]

The people who think it's wrong because their kid might hear something crack me up. Since when is the world made for kids? It isn't. If you're uncomfortable with him swearing around your kid then don't take him. I don't mind. I like when the players act like real people and show real emotion. Stop trying to turn everything into Disney Land.

The second someone starts acting like a real person everyone gets up in arms about it. What do you want? Fake, manufactured golfers or real people you can relate to?

And if he wants to take God's name in vain, so be it. I'm not religious at all and don't care at all.

Now, if I was golfing with a kid or am at an event where kids are around (like a baseball game) I'll watch my mouth because it would bother *me* if I acted like that. But I don't judge others.

Why is everyone judging Tiger and getting pissy because he doesn't live up to your ideal of the perfect golfer?

And please, don't ever go to an NBA game if swearing bothers you. If you're close to the court its a constant barrage of swearing. Same with the NFL if you're around the benches. It's just in golf you get so close.

(for the record when I golf I refuse to get mad and frustrated because it doesn't help me. But he's a pro with a lot of pressure so how can I possibly understand?)

[dag2000]

One of the arguments for letting Tiger be Tiger is that his fire and passion, profanity and all, is more entertaining to watch than the bland automatons like Ernie Els. That's a false dichotomy.

There have been many charismatic, fiery, and entertaining players who were, frankly, more fun to watch in my opinion than Tiger. Arnold Palmer, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Lee Trevino, Raymond Floyd, Fuzzy Zoeller, Greg Norman and I'm probably missing some others. Sure these guys swore and threw an occasional club, but not to the same extent.

[enduro]

There have been many charismatic, fiery, and entertaining players who were, frankly, more fun to watch in my opinion than Tiger. Arnold Palmer, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Lee Trevino, Raymond Floyd, Fuzzy Zoeller, Greg Norman and I'm probably missing some others. Sure these guys swore and threw an occasional club, but not to the same extent.

They weren't covered like Tiger. Every single shot of Tiger's is put on TV. And replayed. TV coverage is much more broad now.

Tom Watson said after the British that he really admires Tiger for what he has to go through every single week. Everything is magnified with him. You have mics that pick up tee chatter now. You have Sports Center replaying things. You have Internet forums where people can gossip about this.

[patriot07]

The people who think it's wrong because their kid might hear something crack me up. Since when is the world made for kids? It isn't. If you're uncomfortable with him swearing around your kid then don't take him. I don't mind. I like when the players act like real people and show real emotion. Stop trying to turn everything into Disney Land.

There is a difference, like you said. In golf, the spectators are all quiet, and most are close enough to hear anything you might yell out. It's not like he says it under his breath most of the time.

Oh well, I guess we can just agree to disagree, stuff like this is all opinion anyway. I'd prefer he didn't, and you don't care if he does. Obviously, the PGA doesn't feel like there are enough folks who care out there to do anything about it. I still respect Tiger for his game and his work ethic, and the contributions he makes to charities, including his own, that really do a ton of good work. But I don't want him to be the "perfect golfer," I just want him to be an average one in terms of etiquette. Everyone has a line, and I draw mine well behind where he draws his. I'm not saying I don't chunk clubs or react poorly, but I don't do it every time I hit a shot I don't like, and that's another big part that bothers me, is the frequency with which he does it. If he dumps one in the water or OB, once every 2 or 3 rounds, and says something, maybe you let it go. But almost every time he finds a bunker or deep rough or the jungle, we get an R-rated temper tantrum. It's just too much for me. And I'm not judging, I'm just saying that, as a paying customer, I'd prefer things to be different. I pay for the golf channel, golf tickets, and tons of other golf stuff, so I think I can have an opinion without necessarily judging the guy.

[Shorty]

There have been many charismatic, fiery, and entertaining players who were, frankly, more fun to watch in my opinion than Tiger.

Bobby Jones' father, one of the early members of Augusta National was supposed to have had such a foul mouth and temper that his playing partners were disappointed when he played well, because they missed out on the hilarity of seeing him carrying on.