Hip bump or hip turn? You be the judge..

[PingGolfer95]

Eight inches or so isn't what I would consider a "bump," and the leading edge of the hips keeps moving forward throughout the entire downswing.

Thanks man. I looked at the article very interesting.

[bunkerputt]

bunkerputt, I think it's useful to aid in your analysis of the hip action to download that MotionGolf model and video that's available for free on their website that safetrip mentioned. Using the free MotionReality program I compared the 3D model's hip movement (frame by frame) with your animated gif hip movement and noticed the following: * As the downswing was initiated in the 3D model there was a clear lateral movement back to the left side. The hips stayed in their orientation and shifted left a few inches. * After the lateral move in the 3D model the pivot point appeared to be established on top of the left hip in it's new position. As the new pivot point was estabilished the right hip then pivoted around the left side. The big difference I see between your animation and the 3D MotionGolf model is that the model appears to have only two pivot points to your three pivot points. Remove the 2nd pivot point and replace it with a lateral shift and your animated model may fit better with what should happen in reality with an ideal swing. One aspect that complicates a 2-D model of the golf swing is adequately capturing the weight-transfer. Without the weight-transfer accounted for from right-to-left (in the right-handed swing) then the lateral motion and establishment of the 2nd pivot point cannot be demonstrated properly. The MotionGolf model viewer has a Center of Balance overlay that shows how the center of gravity moves in the golf swing. Turn that overlay on as you observe the swing from below and you'll get a better idea how the lateral move is tied to the weight-shift to the left side in the backswing.

Excellent post Squaddie! Thanks for the analysis. I took a look at the model (Michael Speelman?) and definitely noticed a lateral movement in his swing. Using the grid lines in the background as a reference, it looks like his entire body, head included, falls back to the target maybe an inch or so, followed by a continual shift-rotation of the hips. It's definitely harder than I thought it would be to figure out where the axes are, so you may be correct that there are only two, but consider this: I noticed, by looking at the model from the general direction of the target that if you reference a vertical grid line against the back of his right butt cheek at the top of the swing, and then go through the transition, the right butt cheek doesn't move off that line until after the left butt cheek meets up with it. It seems like he is "preserving his tush line", to use the golf vernacular. I'm kind of shooting from the hip with this analysis (pun intended) so there may be some holes in it, but it seems that if the right remains in place while the left reestablishes itself backwards, that somehow the left rotated around an axis more towards the right. My guess is that what's going on is that the backswing rotates around an axis roughly in the center of the hips, followed by a slight lateral movement-rotation combo move around a moving axis somewhere behind the right butt cheek, followed by more rotation-shifting around the left with the axis continually moving forward slightly. That's much more complicated than I had originally thought. I'd like to get a few more models to compare, but couldn't find any.

I feel somewhat lucky that there are two motion golf locations in Tx, one being in Austin, while the others are either in Manhattan, South Africa, or India. I can just drop $150 bucks and go check out what my body is really doing rather than what I think it is doing.

[ECT]

Thanks Bunkerputt!

At the driving range I work on focusing on rotating about my pelvis area. When I was told to shift weight from one leg/foot to the other or one hip to the other, it just screwed me up and I ended up swaying/losing swing plane/chunking shots. Now I focus by "sense/feel" of my pelvis rotation. Through this method I've also found that I can sense the separation of my upper torso and pelvic area. I've been hitting the ball farther and straighter....contact much more consistent! Works for me....

ECT

[jambalaya]

Thanks Bunkerputt!

I think a more prominent bump of the hips works for some not for others. It may be just the way each of us are built. You may just shift weight naturally and in a less noticeable way but if you hit the ball solidly I would say that you must be shifting your weight to the left leg efficiently. I have become convinced that the bump has to be my swing trigger to set up my downswing. Obviously your bump so to speak just happens and you don't have to think about it. Your swing trigger or initial move just makes it happen.

[bunkerputt]

I did some very extensive camera work this weekend. I don't have access to the videos at the moment, but my descriptions could provide clues as to why this method tended to improve my ballstriking, while attempting to slide the hips gave me topped shots, chunks, and a lot of push-slices. When looking at my swing face-on, I noticed that I still have somewhat of a reverse pivot. It's something that I've fought and it's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but it's definitely there. Another key I found is that my ball position is just too far back for the way I'm setting up. It's about in the middle of my stance and could stand to be slightly (1 inch or so) forward of where it is. Combine these two things with a firm right side and a hip slide and by the time I get down into the ball, I've got two options:

1. Preserve my lag, keep driving through the shot, make a good swing, and whiff the ball.

2. Slow down, cast the clubhead so I can at least make contact.

Obviously #2 is the way I've been swinging. I did catch a whiff on camera. I completely expected this swing to look like crap, but I was dead wrong. This was by far the best swing of the day, but the ball was about 6 inches or so behind where the club bottomed out, so I whiffed it.

Based on where my swing center was oriented laterally, and from my position at the top, I really couldn't move into my left side because I was already there, in a sense. So from that position, a rotation without lateral motion keeps me in a better spot than if I slide and unwind.

Another big problem in my swing, evidenced by the club casting, my poor extension and finish, and having the shaft whip into the back of my neck in my finish, is that I still have a big tendency to unwind the shoulders too early. This is probably because I've just been on top of the shot for so long that it's the only way I can really get down to the ball as any leg drive gets me too far in front of the ball. In thinking about why I stay on top of the ball, I think a big key is that I just want to keep looking at it. When I'm really far behind it with a big shoulder turn, the ball moves to the extreme periphery of my left eye with a lot of strain in my neck to turn it that far left. Usually, what I do is make an incomplete backswing so that I can keep the ball in my visual field. This throws my timing off quite a bit because now I really need to get the arms in front and get my lower body forward before I start the shoulders, otherwise I hit big pull-slices.

I did some range work this morning, working on getting behind the ball with the ball slightly forward, and 90% of the shots were big push-hooks off the toe. I'm still struggling quite a bit with my timing and training my lower body to move. I hit exactly one relatively solid and straight shot and it felt like the pull in my left lat was still there by the time I was coming into the shot.

So keep some of these ideas in mind caveat emptor if you are finding improvements using this turning method. It may simply be that you are already in a forward position and turning is the best way to get back to the ball. If that's the case, and you didn't want to change it, maybe moving to a pivot-less swing system with a more "tilt" and a more "stacked" backswing will be a more natural fit requiring fewer drastic changes, if you catch my drift After looking at my swing, I'm kind of wondering which way I need to go regarding what kind of swing I'm trying to build.