Swing Video - Please Evaluate

[Chicago Lefty]

Quick question though, what happened to your ball flight?

Most of the swings that felt good were straight. I shanked a few, and hooked a few pretty ugly. Overall they were straight. Today was a 7 iron and they were flying ~150 into a pretty heavy headwind. I definitely wasn't getting after it though. When I swing hard I can actually feel myself coming over the top.

I was almost thinking 'sidearm' on those swings to flatten it out. As iacas pointed out, I was probably cheating getting there by rolling my wrists over. My goal is definitely to get to the muscle memory stage. I probably took 5000 BP cuts over the last two years perfecting my baseball swing, I plan to put the same effort into my golf swing. Video seems to be the best gauge of success as far as correcting fundamentals on my own. I really appreciate the help. Laying the lines over my swing and comparing to other swings is extremely helpful.

[Williamevanl]

Well the nice thing is that you aren't set in your ways just yet so it will be easier for you to make changes. I'm not at all surprised by the shanks or the hooks in fact, I expected the hooks. Coming from the inside can cause shank problems in the beginning.

As for the hooks, I mentioned compensations earlier in this post. It's possible to hit a really straight shot with an over the top swing plane as long as you line up right 'left in your case' and close the club face. The lining up right causes the swing plane to artificially come from the inside and the shut club face sort of compensates for the upright swing plane. If you time everything just right you'll hit your target.

Anyway, as you fix you swing plane keep an eye on your grip and alignment. A neutral grip and perfectly aligned stance will keep the over the top in check because it will result in insta-slice if you come over the top. If you are doing some of this, it will result in hooks with the new plane.

If you lose the side spin, you will probably go from pulling the ball, as I'm guessing you had before, to pushing the ball. Its fun to watch the progress so keep posting.

[Chicago Lefty]

Just read your deep hands post iacas. I'll give that a shot and try to get to that flat position with rolling my wrists as much. I'll probably hit another 150 balls tomorrow and see if I can't make some more improvements.

[Chicago Lefty]

My grip is pretty strong. That was one of the first changes I made. Would you recommend going to a more neutral grip?

I also backed off the ball a bit. Now I feel pretty far away from the ball. Does it seem I am too far away? Or am I just used to being far too close?

[Williamevanl]

I would actually, especially for what you are trying to do. The more inside your swingplane gets the more neutral your grip can become. There is a thread about how to hit a draw that you should read. The take home message is if you want to hit a draw you're going to want an openish club face with an inside swingplane. This is in my opinion best accomplished with a neutral grip.

As far as distance from the ball goes, I'm not sure what club you are hitting but you can play around with the distance. Make sure you aren't leaning on your toes or your heals when you swing 'so weight spread equally' and figure out where the ball needs to be in order for you to get the center of the face on it.

At this point I would error on the side of being further from the ball, both because of the shanks and the fact that the club head will be further away from you as your swing becomes flatter.

On and when you practice try to get the ball to start a couple yards left and and spin back a little right. This might seem impossible at first but if you get this going you'll be on the right track. 'The neutral grip will start it left and the swing plane will spin it right'

[Chicago Lefty]

Softball was cancelled due to rain tonight so I decided to stop at the range on the way home. I still think I need to get flatter, but I think I am getting away from my old severel exaggerated "over the top" move when I start my downswing. It looks like on some swings I come back nice and flat but just as I hit my full backswing, something happens and my plane moves to a bit steeper.

The night started out pretty well and I felt I was hitting the ball ok. Still had some slice/fade going on, but there was also a heavy wind going right to left. Some shots were nice and straight. About 60-80 balls in though, I went to crap. I started shanking ball after ball. I think I got tired...I took a break and finished alright with a few decent swings, but none felt as good as at the beginning.

Let me know what you think. These shots are all with a 7 iron. I tried to show a variety of good shots, some fade/slices and maybe a pull or two.

[Chicago Lefty]

I did try hitting a draw a few times. I was able to get the ball to draw if I concentrated on turning my hands over. However I wasn't able to push the ball left and get it to come back. It would start straight and move right.

Also I think the last swing on that video was the best of the bunch...

[Williamevanl]

I really tried to track down this picture showing a bunch of pro golfers swing planes side by side the illustrates how the club comes back on a steeper angle and then drops on a flatter one. You are still taking the club back on a flatter plane and coming down on a steeper one.

What confused me at first is that you are looking really close to on plane on the downswing anyway. I'm sure someone knows the answer as to why its a bad idea to start flatter and go steep but I honestly don't know the exact reason for why this is fundamentally wrong.

If I had to guess it would be that the club has to start dropping and continue to drop throughout the swing in order to end up in the correct positions because after viewing your swing multiple times I was able to catch what is happening to the club head on the downswing. Even though you are managing to get the club tremendously closer to the correct position on the downswing it looks as though you are lifting the club up out of that position throughout the swing. So you start flatter and begin the downswing with the momentum of the club moving vertically up out of the plane that you did such a great job of getting into.

So I guess the point is the club must follow the path you have yet again in reverse. You need it to start it closer to the green line and let it drop from that position to the red line and continue dropping it throughout the swing.

You can see from the club trail that it is still cutting across the ball from the outside. The picture on the right shows what those red dots are supposed to do. The swing plane in the fourth frame shows the path that your 7 iron should take. *I just dotted in some green dots for kicks to roughly show the proper plane. :)* 'yellow line is driver path'

Lastly this explains why you were able to draw the ball but not push draw the ball. If you shut the face down from that position the face will be closed enough that the ball will draw but you will be starting straight or right of the target and you will miss the target right. Keep trying to hit the ball dead left with no spin instead of straight. This might help you get the club head traveling properly from the inside.

[Williamevanl]

Huge digression warning!
This type of swing plane has some interesting consequences because a swing plane similar to this severely limits the golfer. Without fixing the plane your options are...
An open face causing a massive slice.
A square face causing a slice/fade.
A slightly closed face causing a strait'ish shot that tends to move a little left or a pull. 'for right handed'
And a closed face causing a pull hook/draw.
The properly lofted straight draw, the push draw and the push is impossible given this configuration of swing path and possible club face angles.

If you had the extreme opposite of this problem you would hit a push hook which I have only seen once in my life from a person with a square stance, 'not a closed one' and the guy had the longest most consistent mid\long iron and driver shots that I have ever seen, 300 yard drives and a 185 yard six iron that was unbelievably high with tons of backspin. I have read that this is because there is a mechanical advantage to this type of swing but I don't understand why. *Looks at Iacas *

[ks8829]

Try dropping your rear shoulder this will help you stay behind the ball.

try taking the club back as slow as possible with a light grip to the top of your backswing then without any effort uncoil your hip first and then your shoulder and see how that feels.

The other thing that I see is that you are not staying level on your backswing but lifting. If you watch your rear knee it straightens instead of staying flexed.

[uttexas]

Agree with Avid999 on just about everything...especially the you want the forward swing to be flatter than the back swing. One of the ways to achieve this--at the top of the backswing, first move is rotate your hips toward the target, then pull your arms down. First move is down, you don't start the forward swing hitting at the ball, this comes much later in the forward swing.

In an attempt to "get your hands deep", your backswing has become almost too flat. You are overcocking your wrists and bringing the club too far behind your body. At about the 9 o'clock position in the backswing you have the shaft on a way too shallow plane. Overall, you are making huge improvements. It takes most golfers years and decades to be at the point your are at now.

another Bubba Watson swing

[Chicago Lefty]

Ok, first of all I really have to thank everyone, especially Avid, for all of the feedback. It has been extremely helpful. Thank you!

I took last nights advice and hit the range again this morning. I was actually going to play a round but it was too cold and windy to really enjoy it. I'm glad I decided to hit the range...I think I made some progress.

I spent today concentrating on dropping inside and getting flatter than my backswing. Obviously this was impossible without adjusting the super flat backswing I had been attempting. I think these new adjustments were successful. One of the Top Golf pros actually was walking by and asked how I was hitting. We got into a 10 minute discussion and he took a quick look at my swing. He suggest turning my hands over a bit earlier...after changing that I was hitting some very nice 'push draw' shots. Most shots were flying straight with only a slight fade at times.

Let me know what you think...I have some other thoughts regarding power and swing speed, but since I'm still trying to get my mechanics in check, I'm trying not to think about those. Currently I am flying my 7 iron around 155 yards with the range balls. I don't think that's too bad for the 60-70% swing I've been using.

I was also with a buddy finally that was able to take some face on video...

[uttexas]

lookin' real good here. really nice

[james95]

u shouuld shorten your swing just a bit and keep width in your swing the whole way through it. it helped me wen i was slicing!!!!

[Williamevanl]

Everything looks a lot better! Thats a ton of progress in a really short period of time.

[Chicago Lefty]

Thanks guys! Going to play a round today...we'll see how that goes.

[Chicago Lefty]

Well played with my 'new' swing today. It's definitely not set in muscle memory yet. I had a few very nice straight long iron shots, including a 210 yard 5 iron out of the rough. Overall I shot right around my normal score, mid 90's, but I putted horribly, around the green I was rough, and my drive went to crap on the back 9.

Now I just need to hit another few thousand balls at the range and make the new swing, 'my' swing.

[uttexas]

well done, keep us posted. Commit to the swing changes (your 10-31-9 videos look great) Just gotta get it grooved in with repetition.