The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[Leftygolfer]

Well Maybe I learned to keep the head pretty stiill and not let it move backwards in order to hit it solidly. I was just making a turn last night using the method he describes in his video. It felt no different than the way I have learned to turn. And that turn feels really powerful to me.

I need to read the book. Take a better look. I can speculate and argue about something I don't know that much about or read the book, ask questions later. I like option two.

My concern regarding spine angle is answered. Thanks.

[kfowler]

Question regarding club face in the book.

It talks about when you want to hit a draw, the club face should be aiming about 10 yards right of your target line so that your ball starts out right.

What does this actually mean set up wise?

- Do you take your normal grip with the club square, place it on the ground, and then rotate your hands clock-wise so that your face opens and aims 10 yards right?
or
- Do you place the club on the ground, open the face to 10 yards right, then take your grip? Similar to opening the face for a sand or flop shot.
or
- Is it closing your stance as well so your right foot is back a little that your aiming 10 yards right?

Thanks,

[iacas]

What does this actually mean set up wise?

It means you take your normal grip with the club slightly open and pointing in the proper direction. You don't just twist your hands open - they'd be likely to just square back up the instant you put them in motion.

Your feet remained aligned at the target. You should still be able to hit a draw with a square stance because, in their terms, you're still hitting the back side of the circle (the circle's tangent to the target line is roughly off the left heel, so any ball position behind that is on the back side of the circle, or in-to-out).

[kfowler]

It means you take your normal grip with the club slightly open and pointing in the proper direction. You don't just twist your hands open - they'd be likely to just square back up the instant you put them in motion.

Thanks iacas. So if i'm hitting more of a cut with the face open, can I assume that one factor may be that I'm striking the ball on the left side of the tangent vs. the right?

[david_wedzik]

Thanks iacas. So if i'm hitting more of a cut with the face open, can I assume that one factor may be that I'm striking the ball on the left side of the tangent vs. the right?

Kevin - yes that is a possible factor for sure. But if you are hitting on the front side of the point of tangency you could actually be doing so with a closed face and still getting the fade. Where is that cut starting...left of target, straight or right of target?

We would prescribe hitting more of a push/fade so the strike should still be on the backside of the circle but realistically not quite as far on the backside as the push/draw. You would just need to be sure and aim far enough left when executing this shot. Dave

[kfowler]

David,

Generally is more of a slight pull/fade. It's not a bad shot at all in that the ball lands close to target line. I would like to bring things more on the right side.

[iacas]

Generally is more of a slight pull/fade. It's not a bad shot at all in that the ball lands close to target line. I would like to bring things more on the right side.

Then that's not really likely a grip issue at all. You're just hitting the ball on the front side of the circle instead of the back side.

Basically, with a proper S&T; swing that stays on the circle and keeps the clubface properly aligned, you can hit anywhere on the circle and the ball will move back towards the target. Hit way on the back of the circle and the ball will start way right and hook back. Hit way on the front side of the circle and the ball will start way left and slice back. So it sounds like you're just hitting slightly on the front side of the circle rather than slightly on the back side. If you have the book, see page 174 and work through the fault tree there.

[kfowler]

If you have the book, see page 174 and work through the fault tree there.

Haven't got that far yet but I'll check it out.

[hs350]

Hi,

I have two questions on S&T;, on which I hope you experts here can provide some insights.

Having felt that I've hit a wall with my homemade conventional swing for a while, I decided to give S&T; a serious try over the winter. I just had a full practice session at the range today where I hit 150+ balls while trying to follow S&T; patterns. I found that I almost always catch the ball first with all the clubs, and a lot of them, when not thinned, felt solid and longer. To better give a context for my questions, and in the hope of benefiting others who might want to give S&T; a try, I list the steps I take in my attempt at the S&T; swing:

- At set up, I make sure to feel more weight on the left leg (I'm a righty)
- To start the backswing, I simply lower my left shoulder straight down to start the vertical rotation of the shoulder
- During the backswing, I make sure to feel the straightening of the right leg
- At the end of the backswing, I pause at the top
- To start the downswing, I bump my hips to the left
- The rest of the downswing happens almost by itself; my only thought here is to accelerate the arms and see the ball disappear from the view

When executed properly (according to my feel), I hit a high, small draw that does not cross the target line, even with a 3-iron occasionally, which is a good result for me.

My two questions about S&T; are:
- What adjustments, if any, did you make in how high you tee up your ball for the driver? I find that I have to tee up much lower to make solid contact. With about half of the ball over the top of the driver face, I tend to sky. When I teed up so that the top of the ball is aligned with the top of the face (or even lower), the drives felt very solid and longer and flew as high as with my regular swing. I wonder if this is because my S&T; swing is faulty or if this is a general adjustment.

- My misses tend to start straight and then draw to the left. Is this tendency related to how "inside" you hands should go in the backswing? I ask because this particular miss disappears when I make a conscious effort to have my hands reach for my right shoulder joint during the backswing, which doesn't yet feel natural. Or is this a result of something else?

My apologies for the long post!

Much thanks for advance and happy new year.

--HS

[Alohaed]

Hi all. Just bought the book and started reading it. I can not wait to finish it and the warmer weather to practice it at the range. What I have read so far is facinating and very impressive. I've practiced some moves in the apt slowly along with my original swing. The new S T feels much more comfortable and easier. I apologize if it's posted and I missed it, but has there been a list of S T instructors made available yet?

[Leftygolfer]

Hello,

I just finished the book and I am excited about getting out to try it. I have two questions. First, in reference to the cone, I will be playing a push draw for the most part (I've drawn the ball for years and expect to do so still) and my goal is to elliminate the hook. Where do I aim. Will I aim actually a bit right of the stick so if I hit a perfect shot, I will have 20 feet, if I push it a bit too much, it will be perfect, and if I hit a dead push I will be just of the left of the green.

Another question I have is how can I work on it now. It is too cold to hit balls, play, anything. Anything I can do except turn with my head against the wall.

[uttexas]

..... Where do I aim..... how can I work on it now. .....

With S&T;, I open my clubface slightly. If I don't open my clubface a little, I can overdraw.

Work on it now:

[Alohaed]

Another question. I plan on getting fitted this season for new irons. Will things change due to the new S&T; pattern: lie angle, etc? Should I get used to my new swing before I get fitted?

[Dr_Fu_Manchu]

S if golfers had started with SnT from the beginning my belief is that we would have generations of drawers/hookers instead of faders/slicers. Just my opinion but that is what the geometry says

I am not trying to stir up to trouble, but what's the difference if you have a generation of hookers vs. slicers? You're still missing your target.

[iacas]

Another question. I plan on getting fitted this season for new irons. Will things change due to the new S&T; pattern: lie angle, etc? Should I get used to my new swing before I get fitted?

It's irrelevant. Your lie angle and whatnot is your lie angle. A good impact position looks the same in an S&T; swing as anything else.

I am not trying to stir up to trouble, but what's the difference if you have a generation of hookers vs. slicers? You're still missing your target.

A draw or a fade is both

more correct and more powerful. It's also easier to straighten out than a slice tends to be for the average golfer. But it's the "more correct" part that's better. Good golfers hit the ball from the inside. Bad golfers don't. If bad golfers did, they'd be closer to a good golfer than the kind we have now - slicers.

[david_wedzik]

First a statement and then a couple quick reasons why the driver seems to be a sticking point for some:

[uttexas]

I am not trying to stir up to trouble, but what's the difference if you have a generation of hookers vs. slicers? You're still missing your target.

Approaching the ball from the inside allows the golfer to utilize the loft of the club more efficiently. You can hit higher draws and higher fades approaching the ball from the inside compared to swinging across the ball. More accurately stated, we have a generation of pull slice golfers. In order to hit the ball straight, swinging across the ball out to in, one adapts by closing the club face, so the ball starts left and fades back to target. The problem here is that you will hit the ball lower, with less ability to hold greens (especially with long irons and fairway woods)

[david_wedzik]

I am not trying to stir up to trouble, but what's the difference if you have a generation of hookers vs. slicers? You're still missing your target.

Well said above by both Erik and uttexas - I will agree that if all we ended up with were uncontrollable slices or hooks...neither one is really better. That said...the answers from Erik and uttexas are on point - the best players (for the most part when classified) hit shots on the backside of the circle, hitting from the inside...the worst players hit more on the front side of the circle and from out to in. This is not a coincidence. Also...the ball hit from the inside can be hit with a more open face and thus can be hit higher if need be.

Finally - and most important - with all else equal balls hit on the backside of the circle are hit prior to low point (with the club descending and compressing the ball)...balls hit on the front side of the circle are hit after low point. Dave