The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[iacas]

Sorry RI, meand toward target line.

Let's stick with "toward the ball."

It's important just because you can't properly straighten the right leg without the left knee bending slightly or you change your levels. It'll also look like it bends more than it does because the right leg straightens.

[Fatphil]

Let's stick with "toward the ball."

funny this comes up...The "Q" line runs from the ctr of your shoulders to the ground usually close to your toes or slightly outside. They say that your lead knee on the backswing and your trailing knee on the downswing should not cross that line. With a flexed trailing knee no way can I keep my lead knee behind the Q line...straightening the trailing knee makes it a bit easier.

does S&T; address this question? Is this an important concept or overthinking?

[david_wedzik]

funny this comes up...The "Q" line runs from the ctr of your shoulders to the ground usually close to your toes or slightly outside. They say that your lead knee on the backswing and your trailing knee on the downswing should not cross that line. With a flexed trailing knee no way can I keep my lead knee behind the Q line...straightening the trailing knee makes it a bit easier.

Not sure on what Q is in this equation but the line is pertinent. The line basically goes through the center of the shoulder blades and starts at the base of the neck (on a 90 to the ground). The REALLY important part is that the trail knee doesn't "bust" through that line on the downswing by flexing too much. This can cause early extension or a spinning of the hips. If the hips slide straight forward and the knee only returns to address flex the knee stays inside that line.

On the backswing - be sure the right hip goes higher and behind as the trail leg straightens. When the lead knee flexes its orientation is more in place and it will not "cross" that line. Dave

[Dr_Fu_Manchu]

Did anyone else see the article in Golf Tips about the Load & Lean? I doubt you did because I might be their only subscriber...Anyway, the article discusses the difference between Stack & Tilt and Mac O'Grady's Load & Lean. The only problem is that most of the differences they point out between the two are inaccurate about S&T.;

For instance, they begin with setup and stance and quickly point out that (incorrectly) that with S&T; your feet are perpendicular to the target line, which limits your hip turn and shoulder rotation. However, with L&L; you setup with your feet open. Ummm...that's interesting in the book I have on S&T; they clearly say to point your feet out 10-20* outward.

Then he goes one to say that you're setup your posture is more erect with S&T; shortening your spine and doesn't allow for either a proper release through impact or pelvic thrust. But with L&L; your posture is slightly bowed, allowing shoulders to fall forward, which is an absolute must to allow your pelvis and spine to properly release through impact. Really....?

Those are just from the first two pages! It continues over 6 more pages and there are some differences, but most are just incorrect statements about S&T; and claiming the L&L; are better even though they are just S&T; moves listed under a new name.

The oddest thing about the article is that it was written by Bryan Hepler, who says he's an accredited instructor of both MORAD and S&T.; Ouch...remind my to be very careful when selecting a S&T; instructor.

[Fatphil]

Not sure on what Q is in this equation but the line is pertinent. The line basically goes through the center of the shoulder blades and starts at the base of the neck (on a 90 to the ground). The REALLY important part is that the trail knee doesn't "bust" through that line on the downswing by flexing too much. This can cause early extension or a spinning of the hips. If the hips slide straight forward and the knee only returns to address flex the knee stays inside that line.

very clear, thank you!

[Dr_Fu_Manchu]

Let's stick with "toward the ball."

Erik, just to clarify what you're saying is when you say "towards the ball" you mean if the ball is played just ahead of center the left knee banks inward slightly. Instead of flexing straight out over my left foot. Obviously, I have a tendency to over analyze everything. I am sure there are more important parts of the swing I should focus on, but I was just curious. Thanks for you help.

[Dr_Fu_Manchu]

Great interview on Charlie Rose with Golf instructors Mike Bennett & Andy Plummer, authors of "The Stack and Tilt Swing"

[Dr_Fu_Manchu]

Is this good advice for those who are having trouble hitting longer clubs with S&T;:

Also, many players have struggled to hit their driver through long irons while using the move. However, I never really struggled with this issue. My advice: straighten your right leg (if right-handed) less when hitting the longer clubs. Essentially, I use only a miniature Stack & Tilt, which allows me to still strike the ball with some zip, but makes solid contact much easier.

[iacas]

Is this good advice for those who are having trouble hitting longer clubs with S&T;:

It's not bad, though it may not work for "everyone." It basically pre-sets more of your weight forward because people have the most trouble with that part. Pre-setting your hands forward helps too - you don't want to be flipping at it.

Beyond that: http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instr...ndtilt#slide=9 (and slide 10 and 11)

[Johnny]

I read from an magazine saying that, Stack and Tilt will probably increase the possibility of hurting your left knee if you're not applying correctly, is that true?

[Tenerife]

Hi Guys

Just joined up to the sandtrap and have been very interested in this thread, I have been working on S&T; for a few months now.

I resently purchased the book and now have the DVDs which make it much clearer to me, like a lot of people it's very hard to find a local instructor more so in the UK than the USA it seems.

Anyway i cannot be anything other than positive about what S&T; is doing for my game having worked hard over the winter months I'm looking forward to the season in a very positive mood.

Keep up the good work.

[Fatphil]

I read from an magazine saying that, Stack and Tilt will probably increase the possibility of hurting your left knee if you're not applying correctly, is that true?

I think the left (leading) knee in golf is very vulnerable no matter what swing you use. S&T; maybe less so because you don't have such a violent weight shift back and forth. I'm very careful to stretch out before hitting balls as well as mid round, both upper and lower body and even the slightest twinge in the left knee I take seriously. (probably the best protection is lose some weight, ha ha). Another recommendation is golf shoes with a low profile...IE footjoy LoPro superlites...big clunky soles are a shock to the ankle and knee when you roll onto the forward leg in the follow-thru.

[david_wedzik]

I read from an magazine saying that, Stack and Tilt will probably increase the possibility of hurting your left knee if you're not applying correctly, is that true?

In a word...NO...I honestly have no idea where this stuff comes from...what magazine btw?

Dave

[iacas]

Good video from David Orr:

[bustaone]

I started playing golf about a year ago, and have been plagued with inconsistency (playing baseball all my life really got me a pretty bad swing). Over the past 2 weeks I found this thread, purchased the book, and have been working on the S&T; swing to varying margins of success. Today I finally got my body to fluidly hit all the positions, and I can honestly say I've never hit the ball this far this easily ever. I really don't have to try anymore, it really is as simple as just hitting the positions. Especially helpful was the 1/2 swing drill in the drills chapter of the book, and the straight leg drill. Hopefully I can keep it up, but as simple as this is I think I can. Thanks guys for making this thread!

[ugottabjoshinme]

I have a question about proper wrist hinge. In the book (page 61) it says that the wrists should hinge continuously to the top, creating a 90-degree angle with the left arm. My question is about the direction that the wrists hinge. If I hold my hands out infront of my body (arms horizontal) with my palms facing and touching each other, I can move my wrists so that my fingers move to the left and right or so that my fingers move up and down. Is this wrist hinge so that my fingers move up and down the feeling that I want in my backswing? It feels weird to me to hinge my wrists in this direction. It feels like this type of hinge opens up my clubface more than it should be.

But I know that hinging the wrists so that my fingers move left and right (in the original described set-up) is wrong because that wrist hinge changes the angle between the club and my right arm. Am I looking at this the right way?

[Ping for life]

I purchased the S&T; book saturday read up to the part in the book where you go out and hit 50 shots. On sunday I went out and practiced what I had learned, I was a bit skeptical at first but 30 shots into it I was hitting the ball with more compression and hitting it farther and straighter than I did all of last year. Suffice it to say I was looking forward to reading more about it after such a eye opening practice session. One question I have for all of you people that are shrugging this off as a fad or just because Hank isn't teaching it the S&T; must be a passing fad. Whatever it ends up being if you keep an open mind and READ the whole book instead of giving analysis on something you A. have not tried or B. have not read completely to understand the why's and how comes of the swing. Your bashing of it is unfounded in any practical hands on application of it. Will it work for everyone? NO I don't believe it will, some people just will not be able to break away from what they feel is the best way to swing a club. But for some it may be a light bulb above the head moment where they realize this is what it's like to hit a golf ball well and consistantly. Is that not what we all would like to do? If what you are doing now works for you GREAT!! you have no need for it. If what you are doing now makes you want to give up the game and play tennis, try it out you just may end up keeping your clubs and enjoying the great game of golf for many years. It's true the great players seemed to be able to do things we mere mortals cannot. But if you look closely much of what they did well is incorporated in the S&T; method. If the S&T; is not for you reply to other threads where you may know of what you speak, instead of dismissing something you don't. If you tried it and hated it, well sorry that it didn't work out for you I hope you eventually find something that does.

[iacas]

I have a question about proper wrist hinge. In the book (page 61) it says that the wrists should hinge continuously to the top, creating a 90-degree angle with the left arm. My question is about the direction that the wrists hinge. If I hold my hands out infront of my body (arms horizontal) with my palms facing and touching each other, I can move my wrists so that my fingers move to the left and right or so that my fingers move up and down.

Your right and left hand hinge differently. Actually, only your left wrist hinges, the right wrist bends or folds. If you hold your hands out in front of you with your palms facing each other, your left wrist is like a hijacker - you move the thumb (on top) towards your nose. That's wrist cocking. The right wrist bends backwards so that your knuckles move towards your forearm.

You don't cock your left hand 90°. The club at address already forms an angle there, and because your right wrist folds and is below your left, that helps add to the cocking too. Most people can't cock their left wrist more than 20 degrees or so - but that's about all you need. Stand at address and just cock the left wrist up - the club will get to just past horizontal. That's all.

If you tried it and hated it, well sorry that it didn't work out for you I hope you eventually find something that does.

And, truth be told, most people that try it and don't like it probably weren't doing a few of the parts right.