The key to my power...

[TinCupTampa]

  wedge player said:

dont say that they will get mad and call you wrong

Just because you argue the longest doesnt make you correct.

[andyh]

I don't know why there is so much skepticism about this training technique. It assisted wedge player in improving his distance.

Certainly you would not want to turn into the hulk. I play with an ex body builder and the guy might be able to lift a car but he has no flexibility and cannot get his shoulders turned.

If this has increased your strength at the same time improving flexibility, technique and stability of your swing then I say congratulations. If your distances have increased and you have remained accurate then that is great.

I used to play professional football (soccer) and the training drills were designed to give us a balance of power/speed. Working heavier weights and lighter weights was a regular routine with the intention of increasing power and speed. But you would want this through your whole body. Legs, butt, upper body, etc.

I would imagine this to be the same in golf. No point having popeye arms on top of olive oil legs. To be consistent you need strength and flexibilty throughout the body. I think a heavy weighted club would be a great training aid as it replicates the "real" movement of the golf swing, training the muscles exactly in the correct movements of the swing. I would think it would also improve flexibility. It is not as if you are lifting a heavy weight in one direction. You are stressing and working the muscles in all the right directions.

Happy xmas.

[iacas]

  andyh said:

I don't know why there is so much skepticism about this training technique. It assisted wedge player in improving his distance.

That's yet to be proven. It's almost as likely to have hurt his distance. We don't know - nor does wedge player - because he didn't conduct a scientific experiment. If he had a long-term goldfish cracker craving during the time he increased his distance, he could come on here and make the same claims about the distance-increasing power of goldfish crackers.

Did his technique remain the same? His launch conditions? His equipment? His playing conditions? Unlikely to all. Muscles help but only to an extent, and every study I've seen on swinging a heavy club says that it's bad. The best say there's no point. The only ones in favor of them come from people who are trying to sell you a heavy club. I've watched Tour pros practice, and the closest they've gotten to swinging a "heavy" club is to twirl two or three around themselves to loosen up or to swing two at a time like Padraig does to loosen up. That's purely about stretching.

[Keep It Simple]

  iacas said:

I've watched Tour pros practice, and the closest they've gotten to swinging a "heavy" club is to twirl two or three around themselves to loosen up or to swing two at a time like Padraig does to loosen up. That's purely about stretching.

I watched Vijay Singh practice at Angus Glen for the 2007 Canadian Open and he was hitting golf balls with the Momentus Power Hitter (a very heavy weighted driver).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2wb0f_Nbg (30 sec in, the commentary says it all).

[WUTiger]

Titleist Performance Institute has a website with lot of into on conditioning for golfers:

http://www.mytpi.com/gfa/episode.asp?id=46

TPI trainers talk about Flexibility, Mobility, Power and Strength. Basic TPI rule:
Mobililty + Strength = Power

The power-building exercises from TPI seek to increase the speed/explosiveness with which the golfer moves in his swing.

[andyh]

  iacas said:

That's yet to be proven. It's almost as likely to have hurt his distance. We don't know - nor does wedge player - because he didn't conduct a scientific experiment. If he had a long-term goldfish cracker craving during the time he increased his distance, he could come on here and make the same claims about the distance-increasing power of goldfish crackers.

He could come on to the forum and argue for the benfits of Goldfish crackers, but he didnt. He suggested that a heavy weighted club has assisted him in improving his distance. It doesnt seem to be such an outrageous claim that raises my suspicions. Along with other improvements in his game would suggest it has worked for wedge player.

VJ obviously likes it. Horses for courses I say. For some people this may not be the appropriate training technique. For others it may be a useful training technique. I know football players who benefitted more from fast twictch muscle work (beacuse they were already big, strong athletes), whereas someone like myself benefitted from lifting heavier weights (along with developing speed).

[andyh]

Wedge player what was your routine with the "red neck" heavy wieghted club?

[iacas]

  andyh said:

He could come on to the forum and argue for the benfits of Goldfish crackers, but he didnt.

That misses the point completely. The point was that this was by no means a scientific endeavor and everything I've read by scientists refutes his claim. He may have in fact LOST distance by adding whatever muscles he thinks he added, but more than countered it with difference in technique, improved launch conditions, etc.

And Vijay was paid for awhile to endorse a weighted stick and uses one currently to loosen up. It helps him stretch. He doesn't use it to build muscle.

[Leftygolfer]

You don't think Jamie whatever his name is isn't strong because of his weight? I would bet alot of money he can bench over 300 pounds and is stupid strong in every excerise for his size. To think strength has no bearing in how far you hit it isn't accurate. Is it the most important thing in hitting it far? No but it is a huge factor. How do you think Camilo Villegas got so much longer since he started his college and now pro career? Working out and getting stronger and faster. It helps and I am sure that is why we see people on tour working out and getting stronger.

[andyh]

He "may" have lost distance but we don't know do we? All we know is that he has "gained" alot of distance through various techniques.

That to me has to be congratulated and if someone can do this then I am happy to learn how he did it. I will make my own mind up if the technique is any good or not.

Whether the argument is for muscle mass or not is immaterial to me and beside the point. I would agree with you that muscle mass is not necessarily the main thing that improved his distance but it may be just that training with the heavy club provides something in his swing that works for him. Perhaps it helped him become more flexible. Perhaps it did give him more power. I don't know, but it was part of his training plan and his training plan has worked. As I said "horses for courses".

[iacas]

  Leftygolfer said:

To think strength has no bearing in how far you hit it isn't accurate.

Nobody's said that (though I suspect it has less bearing than many think).

  Leftygolfer said:

Working out and getting stronger and faster.

Camilo didn't swing a heavy club to build muscle mass. He worked out with light weights, repetition, a lot of cardio, and built toned, fast-twitch muscles.

  andyh said:

He "may" have lost distance but we don't know do we?

You're right: we don't know. Neither does he, I suspect.

  andyh said:

I will make my own mind up if the technique is any good or not.

By all means, go ahead. Ignore what people who have Ph.D.s and have studied these sorts of things have said.

  andyh said:

Perhaps it helped him become more flexible.

Perhaps this is why you're saying these things... that's not what he said. He said in the very first post "it really builds golf specific muscles." That's what the topic's been. Nobody here has suggested that adding flexibility is a bad thing. We don't even know if he ADDED "golf specific muscles" like he claims he's done. If you want to change the topic to something else entirely, well, that's fine. This thread isn't about flexibility. The OP said basically that everyone here should "build muscle mass by swinging a heavy club and you'll gain distance." That's simply not true, and isn't even likely to be true for the OP.

I'm just urging caution. I've never seen a legit, independent report that supported gaining muscle mass by swinging a heavy club does anything to help you with your golf swing. And I'm well aware of drills for swinging heavy things, but not to build muscle mass. I even helped film a drill, but you don't do this drill to build muscle.

[Leftygolfer]

That isn't accurate about Villegas. I watched his thing on the golf channel. He talked about taking it easy during the season and then really working with heavy wieghts and being sore. You can't get sore with light wieghts. Don't tell me he did light weight all the time. You don't put on mass (like he did, Tiger, heck Phil) without heavy weights. It is a combo of many things and one of the things is heavy weights.

[andyh]

  Leftygolfer said:

That isn't accurate about Villegas. I watched his thing on the golf channel. He talked about taking it easy during the season and then really working with heavy wieghts and being sore. You can't get sore with light wieghts. Don't tell me he did light weight all the time. You don't put on mass (like he did, Tiger, heck Phil) without heavy weights. It is a combo of many things and one of the things is heavy weights.

Right. It is a combination. Camillo and Tiger do not look like they are only lifting light weights. The light fast reps work well in conjunction with heavier weight lifting programs. Big strong powerful legs provide so much stability in any sport. If you have ever gone through a weight program to strenghten legs you will know the benefits this provides for athletes. And it sure looks like many of the top players have bulked up on their upper bodies also (without jeopordizing flexibilty).

so where are we with this thread?

[wedge player]

Seems like a mixture of strength,flexibility and technique is the best for a long ball.Although i think everybody knew that

[iacas]

  wedge player said:

Due to the fact i have played with wedge player i can vouch for his power. And from this i believe what he has to say with power i believe him,im no short knocker either.FWIW i believe him and his keys to power.

As of about two minutes ago, this post is now hilarious.

"ping12" originally posted this comment, but "ping12" is the same person as "wedge player." So yes, Randy used a second account of his own to vouch on the Internet that he hits the ball as far as he says he hits it. In light of this, I'm going to close the thread. The ability to sleuth out fibbers - that's the key to my power