Mickelson, Harrington, Daly using PING wedges for grooves. Unfair advantage?

[Shanks A Million]

Comments like that make no sense to me. Golf requires more skill now. Spinning a ball backwards stopped being exciting... what... 15 years ago?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Golf was getting to the point where actual shotmaking was totally irrelevant. The courses kept getting longer and longer, and the scores lower and lower. Guys like Tiger and Seve play the game like it should be played, with creativity and daring. They represent a player who can get into trouble and get out with nary a scratch. Guys like Toms and Furyk represented the other side, consistent like the tortoise in the fable, sticking it out. The problem is, you have these guys now who can't chip or putt very well, who just blast the ball as far as they can, then gouge it onto the green. Guys like Quiros, D. Johnson, and Holmes. They will now be forced to rely on creativity and shotmaking. If they can't do it, they won't win.

[RX Phoenix]

What a petulant brat Phil is to try and intimidate others into silence on this issue by calling the cheater comment 'slanderous', that's pathetic. Everyone knows what the intent of the new rule is, to limit spin and try and reshape the game a bit, why does Phil think he's not covered by this. So what if it is a technicality, Phil sounds all lawyered up on this. I suppose he's doing this to make a point on behalf of Callaway about their grooves not being allowed, he's really thumbing his nose at the Tour . . . clearly he's not above this type of childishness. The comments some have made about 'playing for a living' justifying him trying to get an unfair advantage . . . come on, Phil is hardly playing for a living, he's playing for Callaway on this issue.

Can anyone who really knew the older players like Palmer/Nicklaus/Watson etc. even remotely imagine that they would stoop this low, exploit this technicality, and exhibit what is at best very poor sportsmanship? Not a chance, it's called integrity. Phil shouldn't have been called a cheater, but his integrity should be questioned here. I don't think he's getting much of an advantage but he is very clearly thinking more about Callaway than his fellow competitors. Is he being silly . . . yes, and he's insulting our intelligence by the way he's 'spinning' this. Just when I was ready to spend the year following Phil and rooting for him to be #1 he shanks it and reveals poor character, what a shame to start the year this way.

[zeg]

What a petulant brat Phil is to try and intimidate others into silence on this issue by calling the cheater comment 'slanderous', that's pathetic.

Calling him a cheater probably is slanderous if you aren't careful how you state it. If I were serious about my reputation and someone accused me of cheating when I was completely within the rules, I'd be pissed too.

Can anyone who really knew the older players like Palmer/Nicklaus/Watson etc. even remotely imagine that they would stoop this low, exploit this technicality, and exhibit what is at best very poor sportsmanship? Not a chance, it's called integrity. Phil shouldn't have been called a cheater, but his integrity should be questioned here. I don't think he's getting much of an advantage but he is very clearly thinking more about Callaway than his fellow competitors. Is he being silly . . . yes, and he's insulting our intelligence by the way he's 'spinning' this. Just when I was ready to spend the year following Phil and rooting for him to be #1 he shanks it and reveals poor character, what a shame to start the year this way.

The rules are as they're written. Taking advantage of the rules displays intelligence, not lack of integrity. Lack of integrity would be modifying a club and hoping no one noticed. Questioning anyone's integrity here is way out of line. If there's an advantage with the old wedges, it's available to anyone in the field who can find an old wedge on ebay. As for this business about thinking about Callaway... uh, what? That doesn't even make sense. The rule is completely clear: those clubs are permitted. There's no need to contemplate what the authors were trying to do, it's unimportant, just as, e.g., it doesn't matter WHY you're allowed to drop on the far side of a lateral hazard if it's to your advantage to do so.

[normdamarine]

This is the point to this whole conversation! Phil nor anyone else would be playing those clubs if they did not have the grooves, plain enough. Look how old the club is... They are ugly as heck also and so now, after the PGA changes a rule to change grooves he goes and gets one and plays it now... Come on dude... I would not say that he is cheating but everyone can see that he is playing the club because of the loop hole!

[B Keller]

This is the point to this whole conversation! Phil nor anyone else would be playing those clubs if they did not have the grooves, plain enough. Look how old the club is... They are ugly as heck also and so now, after the PGA changes a rule to change grooves he goes and gets one and plays it now... Come on dude... I would not say that he is cheating but everyone can see that he is playing the club because of the loop hole!

I'm singleing you out, but your's is the latest post.

Had the USGA approved the conforming wedges that he and Callaway submitted I do not think he would be using these. But since legal grooves were not allowed he is taking the loophole. BTW, where's the :beating a dead horse: smiley?

[Shorty]

What a petulant brat Phil is to try and intimidate others into silence on this issue by calling the cheater comment 'slanderous', that's pathetic. . . . come on, Phil is hardly playing for a living, he's playing for Callaway on this issue.

What has it got to do with Callaway? The rule regarding Ping Eye 2 clubs was "grandfathered" in 1993.

i just think that the whole rule change is stupid, golf was getting the most exciting its ever been due to unreal shots and guys chucking it 30 feet behind the pin and ripping it back, it just doesnt feel as exciting!

It still happens. And you still see guys pitching it 3 feet short of the pin and the ball screws back 15 feet. Not quite sure why you find this exciting. Seems to me that a lot of people think that getting a ball to screw back requires incredible skill. Controlling spin is where the skill lies.

[topspin4hand]

They have a couple EBAY auctions with the grandfathered Eye 2 wedges ... it'll be interesting to see what they ultimately go for.

[zeg]

I would not say that he is cheating but everyone can see that he is playing the club because of the loop hole!

Actually, it's odd that everyone calls this a "loophole." This is about as far from a "loophole" as you can get: it's an explicit allowance in the rule. A loophole is "an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules" (per the Apple dictionary). There's no ambiguity here, and it's hard to call it an "inadequacy" in the sense of the definition when the exception was spelled out so clearly. If there's a problem here at all, it's a problem with the rule, not with those who are following it. A real loophole was, e.g., performing a test drop with a ball not in play to determine the likely outcome of taking relief. This was clearly something not intended to be legal, but which (until the 2010 decisions updates) fell in between the various rules that might apply and wasn't quite against the rules. The new decision relies on equity to resolve this as illegal because it was found that the rules simply did not address the situation. Here you can't make that claim. Calling this a loophole makes it sound like the players are doing something shady, which they're not.

[mcfc_nick]

It still happens. And you still see guys pitching it 3 feet short of the pin and the ball screws back 15 feet. Not quite sure why you find this exciting. Seems to me that a lot of people think that getting a ball to screw back requires incredible skill. Controlling spin is where the skill lies.

im not saying it requires incredible skill, it just looks more exciting to me than the ball pitching and then running on another 10 feet

[Shanks A Million]

im not saying it requires incredible skill, it just looks more exciting to me than the ball pitching and then running on another 10 feet

To anyone who's, say, an 8 handicap or lower, it's not exciting at all. It's annoying if anything to hit a green, and watch as your ball rolls off the front.

[raycharles]

Look how old the club is... They are ugly as heck also and so now, after the PGA changes a rule to change grooves he goes and gets one and plays it now... Come on dude...

Wait a minute. I believe they are the most popular irons in golf history. But, what do I know. I only own 7 sets. Anyone want some 87-90 cast wedges? I have plenty. Shame on the PGA for the rule change. Wanna make a difference in play? Go back to wound balls and make everyone play the same brand. THe PGA is going the way of NASCAR. Everyone will be playing clubs with the same diameter, weights, lofts, and shape. The groove rule is completely ridiculous. IMO.

[topspin4hand]

To anyone who's, say,

lol ... nice cutoff choice for handicap!

Though I agree with you that watching someone spin it back isn't that exciting ... and I'm a high handicapper

[Shanks A Million]

lol ... nice cutoff choice for handicap!

Yeah, when I drop to a 5.7 or something, it will be "anyone lower than a 6 handicap." It's convenient.

[James_Black]

To anyone who's, say, an 8 handicap or lower, it's not exciting at all. It's annoying if anything to hit a green, and watch as your ball rolls off the front.

I'm just saying it looks better when you hit the ball past the hole and it spins back to a couple of inches or even in the hole.

And do you not like it when you hit a good shot that spins back close?

[mcfc_nick]

To anyone who's, say, an 8 handicap or lower, it's not exciting at all. It's annoying if anything to hit a green, and watch as your ball rolls off the front.

all im saying is that to me it is more exciting like say yesterday on the 18th after phil had gone in the water, the shot that he played stopping it and bringing it back at touch seems more exciting to me than if he'd have played a low runner running towards the flag, but its all about opinions anyway :)

[iacas]

Can anyone who really knew the older players like Palmer/Nicklaus/Watson etc. even remotely imagine that they would stoop this low, exploit this technicality, and exhibit what is at best very poor sportsmanship? Not a chance, it's called integrity.

Not that I disagree with you, but Arnold Palmer famously endorsed the ERC II driver which was illegal. Most say Peter Kessler was fired from Golf Channel for challenging Arnie on it.

Shame on the PGA for the rule change. Wanna make a difference in play? Go back to wound balls and make everyone play the same brand. THe PGA is going the way of NASCAR. Everyone will be playing clubs with the same diameter, weights, lofts, and shape. The groove rule is completely ridiculous. IMO.

You want everyone to play the same ball, but think it's dumb that regulations on grooves that have always existed were modified slightly recently? And THAT change is what makes golf like NASCAR????? Logic failure, buddy.

Where were you before, when the rules change was being discussed, and when the report which showed some things fairly conclusively was published? (Ooooh, science.) In the clip segment yesterday pros were asked if they like the rules change and most did. Phil's comments were the only ones not in support of the rules change - and I still say he should be one of the happier guys, given his skill set. Besides, the guy's hit something like 8 of 42 fairways this week and is in fifth. He's embarrassing himself.

I'm just saying it looks better when you hit the ball past the hole and it spins back to a couple of inches or even in the hole.

If you say so. Seriously, I wonder if the dividing line has anything to do with handicap.

[mcfc_nick]

If you say so. Seriously, I wonder if the dividing line has anything to do with handicap.

i really dont think this is the case because buddies of mine who play off handicaps below 5 also dont think its as exciting

[Big_M]

What a petulant brat Phil is to try and intimidate others into silence on this issue by calling the cheater comment 'slanderous', that's pathetic. Everyone knows what the intent of the new rule is, to limit spin and try and reshape the game a bit, why does Phil think he's not covered by this. So what if it is a technicality, Phil sounds all lawyered up on this. I suppose he's doing this to make a point on behalf of Callaway about their grooves not being allowed, he's really thumbing his nose at the Tour . . . clearly he's not above this type of childishness. The comments some have made about 'playing for a living' justifying him trying to get an unfair advantage . . . come on, Phil is hardly playing for a living, he's playing for Callaway on this issue.

I think you're way off base... the fact is these wedges ARE legal and the TOUR needs to address the issue and reach a settlement with Ping or or the players. Phil is making a good point, as is anyone playing these clubs.

Calling him a cheater probably is slanderous if you aren't careful how you state it. If I were serious about my reputation and someone accused me of cheating when I was completely within the rules, I'd be pissed too.

I agree... with this, no question about integrity here.

This is the point to this whole conversation! Phil nor anyone else would be playing those clubs if they did not have the grooves, plain enough. Look how old the club is... They are ugly as heck also and so now, after the PGA changes a rule to change grooves he goes and gets one and plays it now... Come on dude... I would not say that he is cheating but everyone can see that he is playing the club because of the loop hole!

I don't think anyone (including Phil) would argue the fact that he IS playing the Pings because they have "better" grooves. What exactly does your point have to do with the fact that all these players are well WITHIN the rules and NOT CHEATING!