How to hit a fade and a draw

[MikeLowry5]

Pull = ball starts left of target (or stance line). Hook = club path closed relative to the clubface.

When you say "club path closed" you mean too much from the inside, correct?

I tinkered around with this today at the range and had much better success with the woods. I was having the most success with starting open to the target a bit and pushing it like Trevino. I also moved the ball up in my stance. As a result the shots were straighter and higher. The misses were smaller, 10yd cuts. When trying this wiith the irons I had a tendency to hit some push-fades which I'll assume just means my swing is a bit more over the top with shorter clubs.

[Zeph]

When you say "club path closed" you mean too much from the inside, correct?

"Inside" refers to a negative horizontal angle of attack, relative to the body. That, however, does not mean it is closed relative to the club face, seeing as the club face can be angled different than the body.

If you stand square with the body, and swing from the inside, this will give a swing path from in-to-out. If the club face stays square to the target, this will produce a shot curving right to left, a draw or hook. You always have the relationship between the club face angle and the swing path angle, which works on its own, regardless of where you aim the body. Look at this graphic. You will of course never swing the club straight right or straight left, it's just to make it look better. Don't think about having a target here, just focus on the relationship between the club face angle (red arrow) and swing path angle (yellow and green area). If the swing path is angled to the right of the club face angle, the ball will draw or hook. If the swing path is angled to the left of the club face angle, the ball will fade or slice. If the swing path angle is square to the club face angle, the ball will go straight. Now, with that diagram, you can rotate it in any direction, changing the club face angle. Those three shots are the only ones that you can possibly hit (don't count shanks, tops etc.).

When trying this wiith the irons I had a tendency to hit some push-fades which I'll assume just means my swing is a bit more over the top with shorter clubs.

Don't have to. If you aim the clubface to the right for a push, and swing the club open relative to the face angle, the ball will spin from right to left instead. Using the diagram, imagine you rotate it to the right, so the club face is pointing +5º. You can now swing anywhere from +4,99º to 0º, which will cause the ball to fade. You are not coming over the top, as that leads to a negative angle, from 0º to minus something. You can swing from 0º, which is square, to 4,99º from the inside. This is why it's important to think of the swing path relative to the club face angle.

[MikeLowry5]

I tried but got lost on that last post. I'm left handed and can only switch the terms so much before I get lost in my own mind.

[wannabe]

ah, got it now. This thread pwns over the Faldo thread.
Thanks, iacas & Zeph.

'relative to' is the key in understanding this.

[Zeph]

I tried but got lost on that last post. I'm left handed and can only switch the terms so much before I get lost in my own mind.

Any specific parts you are uncertain about or the general idea? Have you read the whole thread?

[Blades4me]

An apology to Icarus. Zeph and anyone who has read this thread.

Last week I lost my temper and posted a stupid retort to Zeph. I've had time to reflect on this, due to I just do this at work and I've been off. So of my own accord and out of respect for this golf site and ppl----

First, my apology to Icarus for thread jacking and detracting from very good information in this thread.

Second, my apology to all who had to read thru the pedantic crap.

Third, my sincere apology to Zeph for losing my temper and posting a stupid post to him.

I'm sure I got flamed pretty well so I see no need to go back and read. I for one would like to move on. Sorry all.

[MikeLowry5]

Any specific parts you are uncertain about or the general idea? Have you read the whole thread?

I've read the entire thread and I am only confused with your last post.

I get the general idea and how a particular side spin/initial trajectory is created. The last post just had alot of directions for a righty and I kept trying to read it while switching the lefts/rights to fit me :)

[Mathew]

I have a question I'm hoping someone will be willing to help with.

I recently figured out that I've been gripping my clubs incorrectly for YEARS! I've never taken any lessons and I only play about 2-3 times a year. About a month ago I started taking my golf a little bit more serious and decided to spend at least one day a week on the range working on my game, this after an embarrasing outing with some friends. Through reading some books and watching some TV shows and the internet I came to realize that my grip was all wrong. I had been gripping the club in the palm of my hands and not with my fingers on my left hand.

My slice has been around as long as I can remember playing (mainly the reason I don't play more often) and I was hopeful that my poor grip was the cause. With my new grip in place the slice was toned down some but was still there. Then last week, I don't remember what show it was, I saw a lesson being given on TV and the instructer was talking about closing the club face to get the ball to go left.... So the next time I went to the range (that would be last Thurday Jan 28th) I decided to close the club face and give it a try. Slice gone! It was shocking to say the least. My drives no longer sliced, my irons were actually being hit where I was aiming. I went back to the range last night and again, no slice, irons acurate, drives acurate. Needless to say I'm happy.

After finding this site a few days ago and reading this thread I'm wondering where in my swing path should I be focusing on in order to not have to close the club face so much, or should I just be happy that I'm getting some decent results and keep at it.

Being a newbie please go easy on me, if there as any other information that I can provide for anyone who has input please let me know. I recored my swing last night. I haven't had a chance to upload it to my computer yet, hopefully that can assist in the future.

Thanks
Mathew