Gap between low pros and good + handicap amaterus?

[deronsizemore]

I played in a pro am once with a pro who is now top 25 in the world.

Name or it didn't happen. :)

Just kidding. Like others have said, I think it comes down to making putts. I feel like I'm a good putter but I just don't make a lot. I'll hit a lot of greens and miss the birdie putts. The same putts that I stare down and miss, the pros would drain all day.

[Fastrack]

I once played with a touring pro.....just lucky to have him in a same neighbor with good friend of mine who is + h/c armature.

Major difference between pro and my friend is consistency in swing, making different shots under pressure, great recovery from hazard, reading green and putting skills (especially from >10-20 yd).

[luckyluke699]

I once played with a touring pro.....just lucky to have him in a same neighbor with good friend of mine who is + h/c armature.

So errr pretty much everything but driving and long iron shots then!! :P

[kleraudio]

I would think a +4 amateur could easily do well on the Nationwide tour. At least make enough to live and get some valuable experience.....

[goblue107501]

Name or it didn't happen. :)

Camillo Villegas, 2005, his first and only year on the Nationwide Tour.

[deronsizemore]

I would think a +4 amateur could easily do well on the Nationwide tour. At least make enough to live and get some valuable experience.....

They would probably finish well in some tournaments, but making enough to live, not sure. Like others have said, most amateur's handicaps are developed by playing the same course(s) frequently. On tour you're playing a new course each week that you're not familiar with (until you've been out there a while and played them each year). When you factor in that it's on the players to pay for transportation, hotel, rental car, food, etc. each week, that will get expensive. If you're not out there making cuts, it will get REAL expensive.

[steve8820]

MiniMoe? No proof he's a +4. He's said he hits 17/18 greens in regulation

While we're at it.............where's the proof that you are a +3.1???????

[Gioguy21]

he's not the real butch harmon fellas...

[BonoVox]

Yeah and when you take it over 4 rounds the strokes start to add up.

[Fastrack]

When you factor in that it's on the players to pay for transportation, hotel, rental car, food, etc. each week, that will get expensive. If you're not out there making cuts, it will get REAL expensive.

Wondering how you can survive until you get decent prize money to support various expenses.

[mdl]

I'm just pontificating, since I don't know any + handicappers. But it seems to me that at least some + handicap amateurs just must be capable of at least making a living on Nationwide, maybe getting a card for a season here and there. I say that cause it seems like there's gotta be some of those + amateurs out there who just don't want to dedicate and take the risk to make a living golfing. If you've got a good career, make good money, have a family. Maybe it's just not worth the risk not just to your own financial well-being but also your wife and kids'. I bet if you took a random 100 +4 or better handicap amateurs, guaranteed them their current salary for 3 years and the same job they have now if they haven't made it in 3 years, and let them just go hit 1000 balls every day and put in hours and hours every day on short game and putting, at least a couple of them could at least win a tourney or two on the Nationwide, maybe a few would get a card and make cuts and make a good living on the tour itself...

[James_Black]

I'm just pontificating, since I don't know any + handicappers. But it seems to me that at least some + handicap amateurs just must be capable of at least making a living on Nationwide, maybe getting a card for a season here and there. I say that cause it seems like there's gotta be some of those + amateurs out there who just don't want to dedicate and take the risk to make a living golfing. If you've got a good career, make good money, have a family. Maybe it's just not worth the risk not just to your own financial well-being but also your wife and kids'. I bet if you took a random 100 +4 or better handicap amateurs, guaranteed them their current salary for 3 years and the same job they have now if they haven't made it in 3 years, and let them just go hit 1000 balls every day and put in hours and hours every day on short game and putting, at least a couple of them could at least win a tourney or two on the Nationwide, maybe a few would get a card and make cuts and make a good living on the tour itself...

If you have to pay a grand to enter a competition and you have a bit of a bad streak and miss the cut a few times in a row your broke....

That's the problem with a lot of players, if they had the money starting off then probably they'd make it.

[Shanks A Million]

I'm just pontificating, since I don't know any + handicappers. But it seems to me that at least some + handicap amateurs just must be capable of at least making a living on Nationwide, maybe getting a card for a season here and there. I say that cause it seems like there's gotta be some of those + amateurs out there who just don't want to dedicate and take the risk to make a living golfing. If you've got a good career, make good money, have a family. Maybe it's just not worth the risk not just to your own financial well-being but also your wife and kids'. I bet if you took a random 100 +4 or better handicap amateurs, guaranteed them their current salary for 3 years and the same job they have now if they haven't made it in 3 years, and let them just go hit 1000 balls every day and put in hours and hours every day on short game and putting, at least a couple of them could at least win a tourney or two on the Nationwide, maybe a few would get a card and make cuts and make a good living on the tour itself...

No, a +4 amatuer and a Tour Pro are in different leagues. The pro courses are incredibly difficult, and they are playing new ones each week. A +4 wouldn't even be able to earn a cheese sandwich on the Nationwide tour. The mini tours are full of +4s who struggle just to get by. The cold hard fact is, the tours, both Nationwide and PGA, are compromised of the top players on the entire planet. Just being a + handicap doesn't mean much, this is a case of being among the best in the world. You need to be able to deliver under pressure, in incredibly difficult conditions (don't forget, they can't use rangefinders or GPSs). When they say these guys are good, they're wrong... These guys are the best. Even the most unheralded, unknown tour player could destroy a +4 amatuer.

[Randy4h]

At my home course, there are a couple of good sticks. I would put them in the +2 or category. I have played with them all, and what I notice is that, when they are "on", they are very good and could compete with anyone. However, I haven't ever seen them be "on" for an entire round. Invariably, they will have a bad drive that goes OB, or try a heroic shot over water that doesn't come off, or chunk a short pitch shot. And their putting, although very good, is not of the caliber that they could sink several 15-20 foot putts on a regular basis.

This inconsistency is what separates them from a Nationwide player, much less a PGA tour player. They just can't hold their game together for 3 or 4 rounds.

On a separate note, our lady pro's boyfriend is a Nationwide player and practices here. I am hoping to get out on the course with him, just to learn a little more about controlling my game. If I do, I will report back on what his game is like.

[Cussin hacker]

Have no real knowledge here, but I would think the skills are close. It would be the mental side of things that make the real diffrents.

[lumpuckeroo]

Have no real knowledge here, but I would think the skills are close. It would be the mental side of things that make the real diffrents.

My guess also, I imagine when it comes to physical skills there may not be much difference, but we all know how mental this game is!

[deronsizemore]

Wondering how you can survive until you get decent prize money to support various expenses.

I can't speak for everyone as I'm sure everyone has a different story, but I've heard stories of people sleeping in cars, sharing hotel rooms, etc. Some may get funding through friends, while others may have a wealthy family who can support them. If I remember right, Rich Beem before he won the PGA Championship, he was a cell phone salesman and one of his customers (or a friend, can't remember) put up the money for him to play on a mini tour to see if he could make it.

[9iron]

We have several +4's in our area.

Buddy Marucci played in several Walker Cups and captained the 2007 and 2009 Walker Cup teams to victory. He once lost in the US Amateur final to Tiger Woods. This is the type of player that you would think would be a +4. Could he compete in a PGA Tour event? Hard to say. I don't believe he made the cut in the Masters the year following his Amateur final appearance.

Many of the PGA Professionals competing in the PGA Professional Championship are +4. Some qualify for the PGA Championship. How do they look? A few Amateurs make it to the US Open every year. To qualify all the way thru you have to be very good. I'd guess some of them are +4. Few ever make the cut. Some do, but not many.

In my limited conversations with top flight players I think the difference has little to do with length or even ball striking. It is putting first, then short game, ability to shape shots, wedge game, and accuracy into the greens next.

A player at my club played in this past year's US Amateur and he mentioned that scoring was very hard at Southern Hills CC (and its sister club) for that event. The reason, according to him, was that even when the ball was in the fairway it had to be in the correct half of the fairway or otherwise a shot would require much shaping to get the ball to the proper part of the green. When forced to hit so many harder draws or cut shots the level of difficulty rose accordingly.