Please Check My Swing!

[Luckner88]

First off let me just start by saying this forum is awesome! I have never seen a place where so many people help each other and put in so much effort to guide players of all skill levels through the fundamentals of golf. Because of that, I wanted you guys to critique my swing. I have taken 3 lessons and all three teachers seemed lazy and out to get my money. Each one of them basically said the same stuff I read in a $5 golf magazine, the same ole' "Keep swinging naturally, it will all come together." They never took video footage of my swing either so now I would like some people on this great foum to give me some tips and help me with what I have been strugglign with for years...THE FULL SWING! My short game is perfect but for some reason I can't get enough distance out of my irons. It's frustrating playing for par and bogey on long par 4's and par 5's when I can't reach the green in 3 without a long iron. I just don't know how to get the ower out of my swing. Here's my problem-



I can't understand the correct feeling of a powerful swing. I think it's my shoulder turn and my hip turn. When I turn my shoulders they are very flat and halfway through the turn it feels tight and restricted, I don't know if it's my spine angle or not but I realize older guys and younger guys turning their shoulders way past what I turn them with ease. II try to raise my arms to give it a better plane but I heard that raising the arms are bad. When I just turn my shoulders it is very flat plane. I don't think I'm doing a correct shoulder turn, maybe it's because my shoulders are rolled forward, i don't know.



The other thing is my hip turn on the downswing. When I turn my hips from the top, I cast and go over the top spinning my hips out. I know gauged my swing by moving my shoulder and my hips and now I get a nice draw but my distance is weak, I'm only getting like 145-150 with my 7-iron. I just can't understand the hip turn and the pivot, and when and how to unleash the "secret" power. Please help guys, I am going crazy over this.

[kilbyman]

second video marked as private

[senorchipotle]

you're coming way far inside, both in the back and downswing. it's a lot harder to square up the clubface this way, and if you miss it you're going to push it way right, or even $&*nk it. try going back and coming in on a steeper line and hit down on the ball. on the downswing, you want the back of your hand to be in front of the ball and facing the ground when you make contact.

[Luckner88]

second video marked as private

thanks I fixed it

[Luckner88]

you're coming way far inside, both in the back and downswing. it's a lot harder to square up the clubface this way, and if you miss it you're going to push it way right, or even $&*nk it. try going back and coming in on a steeper line and hit down on the ball. on the downswing, you want the back of your hand to be in front of the ball and facing the ground when you make contact.

I know that I am coming inside but I don't know how to turn my shoulders on a steeper angle, I kind of just turn them horizontally.

[senorchipotle]

I know that I am coming inside but I don't know how to turn my shoulders on a steeper angle, I kind of just turn them horizontally.

sorry, i misworded that. i meant to say take your hands back on a straighter line behind you and come down on a steeper angle. try and feel like your hands go no farther behind your body than your shoulder.

[Phil McGleno]

i meant to say take your hands back on a straighter line behind you and come down on a steeper angle. try and feel like your hands go no farther behind your body than your shoulder.

Don't do that. Your hands coming inside is good - the plane goes to the inside, so your hands should too.

You just need to pull your left arm across your chest to get it down faster. It's really, really late getting down.

[Rexx]

The club is well behind you on the downswing, forcing you to flip it at the bottom. Two ways to fix this:

- You have a sort of one-plane top of backswing position. As Butch said, you'll need to give a little tug on the butt end of the club down the target line to start. You don't need to keep pulling the left arm throughout the downswing as the shoulders turning should should take over and keep the momentum going.
- For a two-plane swing, you would need to hinge the wrists a bit more vertically (and a little less horizontally) on the backswing. This would get the club head to go a bit more up and over the right shoulder and your hands would be about even with your right shoulder instead of outside it (in the down-the-line view). From there, the little tug would be more vertically.

In both cases, the tug should not involve the unhinging of the wrists (if anything, it could cause a slight increase), because they will unhinge closer to impact and give you the power you're looking for. Good luck.

[grantc79]

I know that I am coming inside but I don't know how to turn my shoulders on a steeper angle, I kind of just turn them horizontally.

You need to forget about the shoulders and use the right forearm :)

Start the backswing by fanning the right forearm at the angles I listed below: \ to | to / Once the right forearm gets to position 3 in the fanning process you use your deltoids to lift the club straight up in the air. Your shoulder pivot will make the club move around a lot more than you would think but if you pull the club backwards like you current are while turning your shoulders backwards you obviously are going to be way inside. If your hands and arms work vertically while your trunk works horizontally you'll be in a lot better spot.

[Luckner88]

The club is well behind you on the downswing, forcing you to flip it at the bottom. Two ways to fix this:

Rexx thanks for the tip, I notice that I do flip my wrists at impact and I get sort of a balloon effect on my ball flight. The thing I'm afriad of when tugging the butt of the grip is hitting the shot fat. I've done it a couple of times and I don't understand if it is my arms dropping too quickly.

[Luckner88]

You need to forget about the shoulders and use the right forearm :)

Grantc79 thanks for your advice but can you explain in a little more detail about the fore-arm angles. Is this happening during my take-away and can you explain the angles a little better, maybe with a picture because I am a little confused. I tend to think of the shoulder turn as a door swinging horizontally and I think thats the wrong thing to do. If I can focus more on my fore-arm then that would be an easier swing thought but I am a little confused about your angles. If you can explain it to me in a little more detail I would truly appreciate it. Thanks

[Rexx]

Yes, your arms are dropping too quickly. In your first video, look at what your hands/arms do when you start your downswing. They drop straight down. This would be fine if you had more of a two-plane top of backswing position, but you have more of a one-plane top of backswing position. You need to keep those hands/arms moving on a more single plane down to the ball. From the down-the-line view, the hands should cross your body at about the bottom of the ribs or kidney region (yours currently cross at or slightly below the right hip). BTW, it would be better if your backswing also passed this same point -- you're a little bit low here as well, but not as much.

[grantc79]

Grantc79 thanks for your advice but can you explain in a little more detail about the fore-arm angles. Is this happening during my take-away and can you explain the angles a little better, maybe with a picture because I am a little confused. I tend to think of the shoulder turn as a door swinging horizontally and I think thats the wrong thing to do. If I can focus more on my fore-arm then that would be an easier swing thought but I am a little confused about your angles. If you can explain it to me in a little more detail I would truly appreciate it. Thanks

No problem.

Stand with a profile view in the mirror, get into a golfing posture with no club and grab your left wrist with your right hand. Now test this out: 1: Leave both arms completely limp and just turn your shoulders. Do nothing with your hands. Notice you are WAY INSIDE. 2: Leave your shoulders completely limp and raise both of your arms by pulling your arms upwards using the right forearm. Notice your arms went straight in the air...... 3: Now combine the two. Start the move by tugging with the right forearm while grasping the left wrist and make a nice full shoulder turn. That will put you damn near perfectly on plane........ What most people don't realize is the arms work slightly backwards but mostly upwards. Your shoulder turn brings the hands around PLENTY. The hands have to mainly figure out how to get UP! Test that out......

[senorchipotle]

Don't do that. Your hands coming inside is good - the plane goes to the inside, so your hands should too.

whatever dude... when he starts to get the shanks, i hope you'll have more great advice for him.

[Phil McGleno]

whatever dude... when he starts to get the shanks, i hope you'll have more great advice for him.

Says the guy who rarely breaks 80.

[senorchipotle]

Says the guy who rarely breaks 80.

is that supposed to be some kind of jab? if the world worked according to your logic, hank haney would be a better golfer than tiger woods.

[kilbyman]

On the second video, your body drops towards the ball. I noticed your head dips a lot, which would also cause a loss of power (swing thus will get to armsy).

[sean_miller]

First off let me just start by saying this forum is awesome! I have never seen a place where so many people help each other and put in so much effort to guide players of all skill levels through the fundamentals of golf . . . I'm only getting like 145-150 with my 7-iron. I just can't understand the hip turn and the pivot, and when and how to unleash the "secret" power. Please help guys, I am going crazy over this.

You've probably also noticed there are many paths to the way. I empathize with your struggle. A regular golf buddy I met while playing hockey is stronger than me, but off the tee I'm 50 to 100 yards farther. Seriously. His swing looks okay until you watched him hit a few balls. There are so many parts moving at slightly the wrong time, the clubhead seems to be slowing down - almost going backwards - as it reaches the ball. He'll watch me hit my irons and woods (I was still playing persimmon when we first played) and ask me for advice. I got nothin'. His new driver is probably crap (I never hit it in case it's cursed). The thing is, as strong as this dude is, his shot (in hockey) is relatively weak too.

Anyway, if you're hitting your 7-iron 145-150, you're 50 miles ahead of that guy. There does seem to be some wasted and slightly inefficient motion, so I'd keep looking for a teacher - in the flesh or on-line. You could try to "fix" things yourself, perhaps by watching the slow motion videos of PGA players on youtube. You could mimick each position, step by step, then at your regular tempo. The thing is, if you're doing the unimportant parts perfectly and entirely missing the key points, you'll be right back to where you started - maybe even worse. Basically, based on my limited experience with lessons. Your guys sound like lazy assed sheisters, but I could be wrong. My guy didn't work specifically on distance with me. We worked on consistency. You could try that?!?!? PS. As a previous poster said, "armsy" is a perfect description.