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k14

My Swing (k14)

55 posts in this topic

So any ideas on what I can work on to try and stop me coming over the top? I am unsure how to remedy. It seems to happen at the top of the swing, I am doing a back to front Jim Fruyk! I hope these videos are good enough quality, only got my cellphone.

About me, I am an 18 handicap. Playing not too bad. Just can't seem to get any consistency to get a ball going straight. My most reliable clubs are 3 wood and 4-7 iron. Driver is very erratic (although I just bought an 09 burner and am liking it a lot!!), also full swing with 8 iron to PW is not very consistent. I will hit my 6 iron 145-160 yards if I don't slice it with SS of around 85mph. They will always fade/cut.





Any tips very much appreciated!
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Yes, this is quite simple to say, but hard to fix. You merely start down from the top, as I'm sure you know. You need to understand that the swing is like a relay race, and your four runners are hands, arms, chest, and hips.

If all four runners started running at the starting gun, it would probably be the silliest relay race ever contended. Ideally, in a relay, each runner starts in turn, right as the other is nearly finished. In the golf swing, it's the same. The first runner is the hips. They start the race, coming down first. They slide forward and clear out of the way. The second runner is the core, it turns to face the target. The arms then begin their run, they move forward and out ahead of the ball. The hands are the last runner, they begin to unhinge as the hands are nearing the ball, and their race isn't over till well after the ball is struck.

When you do it right (and trust me, it's not always easy. I'm having to relearn after injury), you will feel like your right hip is pointed at the ball at impact. Your hands will feel like they're in front of your crotch at impact. It will feel weird, so start slow and rehearse. You can work on each in sequence, don't hinge anything else, just practice turning the hips and striking the ball with them alone, then work in the chest, etc.

Good luck.
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First thing that needs to be addressed is your setup.

Slide your hips forward a little bit and tilt your shoulders back so that your right is lower than your left. You should also move your hands up just a smidgen so that they are just off the inside of your left thigh.

Next, learn a proper finish position.

A great drill is to try and finish with the butt end of the club pointing at the target.

Work on just those two positions for a while and report back on your progress.
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without reading the previous two replies, you take the club back WAY inside, which will leave it pointing more toward 1 o'clock rather than 12 o'clock at the top of the backswing, from there all you can do is slice unless you dramatically close the face at impact which = snap hook.


Admittedly, I'm no expert, but that isn't helping.

In pic #2, you ideally want the club pointing along the same line as the 'aim' club infront of your feet.
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I agree with the previous observations and recommendations, but what strikes me is the movement of the right shoulder. Your shoulders are open at impact, instead of staying more on the line.

You might want to use a full length mirror to work on this, just to get a picture of where you are trying to get to and what it feels like. Keep your arms in contact with your sides through impact and don''t let that right shoulder move toward the line, keep it coming under.. Practice with a towel under the left arm. Very popular and productive drill.

Actually, you look as though you could be a good player. You have natural skills.
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Yes, this is quite simple to say, but hard to fix. You merely start down from the top, as I'm sure you know. You need to understand that the swing is like a relay race, and your four runners are hands, arms, chest, and hips.

Yep that makes sense, I assume I should be doing my backswing in the opposite order? First cock wrists, bring arms up, then rotate chest/hips? I can see how that would help me keep the club down the inside.

First thing that needs to be addressed is your setup.

Ok thanks, will work on those setup tips. When you say butt end is that the top of the grip?

without reading the previous two replies, you take the club back WAY inside, which will leave it pointing more toward 1 o'clock rather than 12 o'clock at the top of the backswing, from there all you can do is slice unless you dramatically close the face at impact which = snap hook.

Yeah tell me about it, now that you point it out it is obvious. It is really hard to notice these things without someone else's input, thanks!

I agree with the previous observations and recommendations, but what strikes me is the movement of the right shoulder. Your shoulders are open at impact, instead of staying more on the line.

Ahh yes, I have seen pro's on the range with a glove under one or two armpits. Might have to try that (only when no one else can see me though!).

Got work today and tomorrow but will get back out there on Wednesday and see what I can accomplish! I really want to get a bit more consistent but I need to be careful cause I have a really big tournament coming up in 4 weeks and need to get something sorted for that. The prize is the top 4 get to play in the pro am for the New Zealand open next year so I am very very keen to do well!
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Yep that makes sense, I assume I should be doing my backswing in the opposite order? First cock wrists, bring arms up, then rotate chest/hips? I can see how that would help me keep the club down the inside.

Your downswing, rather. The sequence is for that. The backswing sequence I'm not totally sure about most people's opinions, but most say it should all be in one piece.

Ok thanks, will work on those setup tips. When you say butt end is that the top of the grip?

The butt is the grip cap in this case, where the little vent hole is.

In either case, proper setup, and proper sequence are crucial.
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To say it another way, your video is like a closing door... everything moves at once. I like the relay race analogy. There is a sequence to things. I recommend you find Erik's videos and drills and get busy before you get that swinging door downswing grooved into your muscle memory.
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I spent nearly 2 hours on the practice range today and had some really good results with my irons. I worked on getting the club pointing more towards the target at the top of swing, mainly achieved with the glove under armpit exercise (stopped my taking it so far inside on takeaway). I was having real issues trying to get the "relay race" working and in the end I sort of gave up seeing as I was getting really good results with the previous drill. In the end I hit 8 out of 10 balls on the "green" with my 7 iron all with a 10m or so grouping. It was a cool morning today (-2C frost) and I was consistently clearing the 150 yard marker which is usually only achieved with my 6 iron. The best thing was my ball flight was very straight, occasionally with a cut at the end but sometimes it would draw ~1m as it was about to land. The other good sign is that the majority of my divots are also now straight at the target, rather than a 30 degree slant pointing to the left of target :)

With this confidence I then I switched to my driver.... I only recieved my 09 burner 10.5 loft with stiff shaft last week and it wasn't very pretty. I was able to hit maybe 1 in 3 on the fairway but they were all banana balls starting left and fading/slicing to right of centre (the good ones). Distance was ok (200-220yards) but I was hitting my 4 iron within 20m of this. I bought the burner online without hitting anything (I live 150 miles from any shops that have clubs to try) and so I took a bit of a risk with the driver. I have had my swing speed measured before and was in the 102-105 range which is a stiff shaft but am wondering if a regular would be a better option. It may just be the fact that I have only hit it about 30 times and I just need to get used to the long (very very long) shaft. My old driver R540 had been sitting in my garage for 2 months cause I can hit my 3 wood better. One thing I was consistently doing was hitting the ball in the top right corner (when looking at the club head on, up towards hozzle) and never really got the "feel" of a clean hit. Anyone have some tips to try and get a better connection with driver?
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I spent nearly 2 hours on the practice range today and had some really good results with my irons. I worked on getting the club pointing more towards the target at the top of swing, mainly achieved with the glove under armpit exercise (stopped my taking it so far inside on takeaway). I was having real issues trying to get the "relay race" working and in the end I sort of gave up seeing as I was getting really good results with the previous drill. In the end I hit 8 out of 10 balls on the "green" with my 7 iron all with a 10m or so grouping. It was a cool morning today (-2C frost) and I was consistently clearing the 150 yard marker which is usually only achieved with my 6 iron. The best thing was my ball flight was very straight, occasionally with a cut at the end but sometimes it would draw ~1m as it was about to land. The other good sign is that the majority of my divots are also now straight at the target, rather than a 30 degree slant pointing to the left of target :)

We all like to try to put blame on our clubs when we don't hit them well, but 99 times out of 100, it's us. A 7 iron has more loft, and so sidespin is less obvious, and with its shorter shaft, it's a lot easier to make center contact with.

Unless your driver is extremely draw or fade biased, a driver is a driver, and the Burner is a very forgiving, square faced driver. The driver is the longest club in the bag, and it will make a swing flaw the most obvious. It doesn't make a shred of difference what model of driver you're using, and the shaft, at most, will only make a small difference.
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A video of my latest progress. A bit better quality than cellphone too. I think I have improved quite a bit, no Geoff Olgivy yet though. I have focussed on the takeaway, ensuring I take the club back and up rather than around my body. The distance of my irons have increased dramatically, there is still a bit of inconsistency (as you would expect) but I went and played a few practice holes and managed to flush my 4 iron over 200 yards I would usually hit my 3 wood from that distance!! Now I just got to get my driver sorted, not good when I can hit my 5 iron straighter and further.

I need to still work on getting the in/out path better. My follow through still goes "around the corner" a bit. Been watching a few more youtube instructional videos and have got a few tips from there. Anyone got any more tips or comments on my progress?
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You're still aligned left of the club shaft on the ground, and you're still coming across the ball. The changes you need to make will feel extreme to say the least, and you won't hardly even be able to hit the ball for a while. In fact, it may be a good idea to tee up balls and practice with a wedge. That will allow you to make an extreme change and still hit the ball.

You will need to really feel you're hitting the ball with the legs and hips, not the hands to get the over the top hitch out of the swing, and get the inside out path. Also, you will feel you're aiming way left of your target, and swinging way out to the right; that's normal.
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You're still aligned left of the club shaft on the ground, and you're still coming across the ball. The changes you need to make will feel extreme to say the least, and you won't hardly even be able to hit the ball for a while. In fact, it may be a good idea to tee up balls and practice with a wedge. That will allow you to make an extreme change and still hit the ball.

Thanks for the insite, yeah I can see I am still coming over the top, it is a lot less now though. I see what you mean regarding the arms etc. I did try your previous suggestions but it was so hard to work out how to apply them I gave up and started working on the other suggestions. I think my stance may be a bit narrow, also my knees are pointing towards each other. I think I need a slightly more sturdy lower body which will hopefully allow me to try and get that working into the swing better.

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Look at your left foot. See how it spins out and splays when you balance at the finish? That's where it should be at setup. You won't have that jerky bump at impact as the left foot spins around. You can just step right over there smooth and easy.

As for aiming a bit left -- lots of good players do/did that. Couples, Raymond Floyd, Trevino. I prefer a fade with the irons anyhow, so I'm biased.
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Look at your left foot. See how it spins out and splays when you balance at the finish? That's where it should be at setup. You won't have that jerky bump at impact as the left foot spins around. You can just step right over there smooth and easy.

Can you just explain that a little bit more? Are you saying I should move my left foot further forward at setup to stop it needing to twist, or should I leave it open at address?

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Can you just explain that a little bit more? Are you saying I should move my left foot further forward at setup to stop it needing to twist, or should I leave it open at address?

Most of the pros have it splayed out, like you are at your finish. Twisting it through impact the way you do could give Tiger Woods' knee surgeon a little business after a while.

Not a matter of an open or closed stance at all.
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Most of the pros have it splayed out, like you are at your finish. Twisting it through impact the way you do could give Tiger Woods' knee surgeon a little business after a while.

Yeah that makes sense, watching the players today showed that too.

Just played 18 and I am quite happy with the way things are progressing. I hit one slice with my driver but my irons are just awesome now. Bombing the green from all angles. My distances are all screwed up now though. Hitting my 4i from the 200 yard marker and 8i from 150 (used to be 3 wood and 6 iron) means that inside 100 I don't have a club that I can put a full swing on. It was quite apparent that I am still coming over the top though, all of my 3 woods and drives were pull's. This week I will work on clearing those hips out of the way so I can get my hands through the inside and get the draw going.
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Look at your left foot. See how it spins out and splays when you balance at the finish? That's where it should be at setup. You won't have that jerky bump at impact as the left foot spins around. You can just step right over there smooth and easy.

Sorry, he's aimed

right , not left. You want to aim a bit left, but not right. Aiming right is a major flaw that people have because they point their feet at the target, not to the left of it as they should. In doing so, they're forced to swing over the top.
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