Dropping From Lateral Hazard On To Cart Path

[BonoVox]

Situation came up last Saturday. I put a ball into a lateral hazard. Right next to the hazard line is the cart path. There is maybe a foot between the cart path and the hazard line. So the cart path is about 2/3's of the 2 club area that I can drop. BTW to drop it between path and hazard would have me standing on path to make next shot.

What I ended up doing was dropping one within one club length on the far side of the path away from the hazard not closer to the hole?

Did I proceed correctly? Should I have first dropped on the path (or next to it between path and hazard) and then dropped a second time?

[BonoVox]

Also I got lucky. I hit a shot on another hole over a dogleg that is a hill with a stream down the side of it. Whole thing is marked lateral. where the ball lands if you go on that line is blind. I was not sure I hit the ball hard enough to get over the slightly pushed line my drive went on. In fact I was about 70% sure it did not make it. I was going to play a provisional as the drop on that hazard does not really help your position.

One of the players in my foursome told me if I play the second ball it would be in play. I decided not to argue about it and just went to look for my original ball knowing I would have to drop next to the hazard if it was gone. (I was not going to return to tee to hit if it was gone) Turns out the ball was barely out of the hazard (lucky break). I went on to hit the ball about 10 feet and drained the putt for birdie.

I just looked up the rule on the USGA site and turns out he was right. Because the ball was believed to be lost in a hazzard you can't hit a provisiional. (at least that is how I read it)

[MrKadash]

Did I proceed correctly? Should I have first dropped on the path (or next to it between path and hazard) and then dropped a second time?

I haven't looked it up, but you could have drawn a line (imaginary) from point of entry to the flagstick, then taken that imaginary line straight back behind you as far as you wanted and drop. That should have taken the cart path issue out of the equation. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[BonoVox]

I haven't looked it up, but you could have drawn a line (imaginary) from point of entry to the flagstick, then taken that imaginary line straight back behind you as far as you wanted and drop. That should have taken the cart path issue out of the equation. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

The way I understand it not for a lateral (red staked) marked hazard.

[beisenhauer]

First, lateral hazards have all the same relief options as yellow-staked hazards, with the addition of the two-club-lengths option, so you could have used the "imaginary line" option described by MrKadash. Second, you could have taken relief from the lateral hazard by dropping on the cart path, then taken relief from the cart path as an immovable obstruction. It sounds as though this is effectively what you did, merely skipping the intermediate drop. Probably fine for a casual round, but if you're in competition with someone, it'd be better to adhere to the proper procedure.

[rjfan91]

First, lateral hazards have all the same relief options as yellow-staked hazards, with the addition of the two-club-lengths option, so you could have used the "imaginary line" option described by MrKadash. Second, you could have taken relief from the lateral hazard by dropping on the cart path, then taken relief from the cart path as an immovable obstruction. It sounds as though this is effectively what you did, merely skipping the intermediate drop. Probably fine for a casual round, but if you're in competition with someone, it'd be better to adhere to the proper procedure.

Isn't a lateral hazard marked by yellow stakes?

Anyways, regarding the OP's second question, I believe you may play a provisional at any time from the tee.

[Ignorant]

Isn't a lateral hazard marked by yellow stakes?

No. From Definitions:

Note 1: Stakes or lines used to define the margin of or identify a water hazard must be yellow. .... Stakes or lines used to define the margin of or identify a lateral water hazard must be red.

Anyways, regarding the OP's second question, I believe you may play a provisional at any time from the tee.

'27-2. Provisional Ball

a. Procedure If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1.' So if there is a possibility that the ball may be lost somewhere else than in a water hazard a player is entitled to play a provisional ball. Without seeing the actual spot I cannot say if a provisional ball would have been justified. Normally if one believes that the ball is in a water hazard he is not allowed to play a provisional ball but a ball put in play as provisional ball would become the ball in play.

[BonoVox]

Thanks all!

Sounds like technically I should have dropped within 2 club lengths. Then either my ball would have been on the path or I would have been standing on the path. Then I should have taken a second drop for relief from path. (thanks for clarification on the going back on "imaginary line" when in a lateral) That could come in handy on some of the holes. (though in a lot of cases that just puts you deeper in the hazard, doglegs would be one of the exceptions where this would be handy)

Yeah the second situation I guess was a wobler. If you see a splash from it hitting the water then no provisional. Otherwise I guess it just depends on the situation. Sorta like Allenby at Torrey Pines when his ball hit a tree near the lateral and they never found the ball. I guess in that case you could hit a provisional because you are not 100% sure if it is in the hazard or not. But if you don't find the ball you are stuck playing the provisional. If you find the ball in the hazard, I guess you could then have the option to play it out of hazard or drop per rules covering the lateral hazard. (even if you hit a provisional) Interesting.......funny the situations you can run into on different courses.

[Fourputt]

You should have taken the normal relief from the hazard, then dealt with the obstruction if it then interfered with your new lie. It sounds like the ultimate result would be to end up on the side of the cart path away from the hazard, but because there is a chance that the drop on the cart path might have bounced into a playable position (or elsewhere as much as 2 clublengths from where the ball hit the ground or path), to be completely correct you need to make the first drop before you can determine the correct place for the second one, if it is then necessary.

In a casual round, I wouldn't hold up play behind me trying to figure this all out. I'd take the first drop quickly, then see what I need to do from there. The whole process can be accomplished in about 30 seconds once you know what you have to do.

[RemyM]

One of the courses here has a hole like this. The Men's club there established a local rule that allows the drop from the hazard to be two club lengths from the cart path. When the city tournament comes around we just create several drop areas for the lateral hazard on the side of the cart path.