Butch Harmon (Instructors) Don't Know Ball Flight Laws

[iacas]

William is unable to start a thread given his (deserved) negative reputation, but this was too good not to post and I thank him for PMing it to me.

He wrote to ask what Butch Harmon (or his instructors) believe are the current ball flight laws. The response was:

Hi William,

Uhhhhhh...

- He's right about the straight push but not about why. - He's right about the draw but again probably thinks the ball starts right given the path and what he said about it. - He's wrong about the bigger hook. And of course he's wrong about the role of the path and the face. D'oh.

[sean_miller]

William is unable to start a thread given his (deserved) negative reputation, but this was too good not to post and I thank him for PMing it to me.

Umm, can you please keep this stuff on the down low, buddy. Knowing the actual reason a golf ball takes the flightpath it does, is the only advantage I have out there.

Been kicking my buddies arse all summer and if he ever reads this he'll know why too, then he'll catch up - can't have that.

[bplewis24]

Is there a thread or article here about ball flight/path? Because I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

Brandon

[iacas]

Is there a thread or article here about ball flight/path? Because I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

http://thesandtrap.com/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws Just so happens to be the first result in Google for "ball flight laws."

[TourSpoon]

Wow, what a great read. Intuitively, I can hit that Faldo shot reliably, but now I know how I actually did it which is backwards from how I thought I did it. So my "baby draw" is just a square club face with a slight inside path (straight draw). If I want to hit a more traditional draw I just need to have my club face slightly open at impact with a simular slight inside path, not to swing more inside with a square face which then would create a bigger straight draw. Again, wow.

[bplewis24]

I'm going to have to read through that a couple more times before I fully understand it's practical applications. The hardest thing to envision in my head is the clubface being "less open in degrees than the swing plane is inside-out." I read the example later in the comments section, but it is still hard to picture.

Is it accurate, in that situation (push-draw), to say that the club face is open relative to the end target (E in the diagram), but the club face is closed relative to swing plane?

Brandon

[pxc]

Great article, I can see how understanding this would really help some people out. I will remember this concept.

[deronsizemore]

I'm going to have to read through that a couple more times before I fully understand it's practical applications. The hardest thing to envision in my head is the clubface being "less open in degrees than the swing plane is inside-out." I read the example later in the comments section, but it is still hard to picture.

Don't feel bad, Brandon. It took me a while to wrap my head around the new ball flight laws as well. Being told how the ball curves and why [wrong] for the last twenty years I just blindly believed it and was resistant to the "new" laws when the buzz started swirling around them. Erik explained it a couple times to me and I'm sure I argued with him a couple times about it as well. lol

This video really helped me to understand it:

[sean_miller]

. . . resistant to the "new" laws . . .

As someone who struggled with improper lie angle (both too upright and too flat) this clicked on day one. "So that's why a perfectly struck 8-iron still ends up 20 yards off line!?"

[Rexx]

Is it accurate, in that situation (push-draw), to say that the club face is open relative to the end target (E in the diagram), but the club face is closed relative to swing plane?

Yes. Initial direction is (mostly) determined by club face angle. Curve is (mostly) determined by club path relative to the club face angle (not target).

[taterlrsn]

thats a great video!!

[kade33]

I am a newby here and that video for sure drove it home

[bplewis24]

This topic has recently surfaced (coincidence?) at the golf site I used to visit before I started coming here and has stirred quite the debate

Brandon

[GolfBear]

So how did the golfers of the prior generation work the ball if they completely misunderstood the ball flight laws?

[sean_miller]

So how did the golfers of the prior generation work the ball if they completely misunderstood the ball flight laws?

If you overcooked a draw into a crispy hook, you hit the next one with a slightly more open club face or weakened your grip.

[saevel25]

My issue is trying to apply it, its hard to beat out muscle memorie.

[RC]

I don't know this Harmon affiliated instructor, but I know Butch. I don't think he minimizes the role of the club face angle in the path of the ball. He never did with me, just the opposite. I don't speak for him, of course, so only his own comments should be evaluated. It is obvious this instructor is misguided but my experience is ball flight and initial path are confusing for many traditional golfers who (and this is just a guess) go by feel. A draw is an inside out swing, they just do not realize the true push draw is still open faced, just not as much so as the swing path. Words confuse. A lot of people tend to think a pull hook and a push draw or hook are the same kind of thing, just swing path controlled, without thinking about the role of the club face. I don't think a draw can start left of the target line -- to me that is a pull hook. A draw in my world would require the ball to start tight of the target line, hence a club face slightly open. For too many, hook and draw have come to mean just the degree of bend. Highly opinionate thoughts here.

[mdbuschsr]

That was a GREAT video. Not that I would be able to perform any of the swings (except the monster slice) with any reliability. But at least I now have some concept of the cause.