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Posted
What is "Workbility"? What is "Work the ball"? I hear that a lot.

I am trying to decide if I am going to go for PING i15 or G15. I can strike G15 better. i15, I miss sometimes. I am willing to gain a little more "workbility" if i15 can help me. But what the is that?

Posted
I believe workability is the ability for you to shape a shot the way you intend. like you say u want to aim 15 yards to the left of a tree, and have the ball fade back 15 yards.. thus working around the tree.

but from what I"ve been told, you can't 'work' a shot unless you strike it solidly.. so better get the irons that you can strike better, instead of ones where you may miss.. b/c u can't work anything until you hit it.

Posted
What is "Workbility"? What is "Work the ball"? I hear that a lot.

It means it's easier to hit a draw/fade. Better players or people who think they're good players prefer clubs that are more workable than other clubs.

I'd say go for the G15

My Clubs
Driver - LV4 10* R flex
Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
Hybrid burner tour launch 20* stiff flex.
Irons - Tour Mode 3i,4i stiffIrons - FP's 5-PW R-flexWedge - spin milled 54.14Wedge - spin milled 60.07Putter - Victoria Lowest round 2010: 79 (par 70)Latest rounds at...


Posted
What I am thinking is, I practice a lot. And I see a quick improvment in my game, I am thinking may be in the near future, I can "work the ball" too. A set of irons are expensive. Why don't I just get a set of i15. I may get frustrated once a while, but in long run, save me some money and improve quicker. What do you guys think?

Posted
You need to have confidence in your irons, without worrying about the $$$'s. Demo the snot outta both of them, and then go with the set which gives you what you want. Otherwise, you could get so frustrated that you sell your set and quit golf.

Posted
If you understand how a golf swing works, you can work the ball - basic draw and fade - with any irons.

Ball height is easier to control with player's irons than Game Improvement (GI) or Super Game Improvement (SGI). The SGI especially have clubheads designed to get the ball up quickly.

With player's irons there's trade-offs. You'd have to look at the technical specs on specific iron models, but some designers have described the difference like this: Player's irons have a sweet spot the size of a dime, SGI irons the size of a quarter.

If you have a well-tuned swing, the player's or GI irons will be more responsive to your swing. But mishits get less forgiveness with player's or GI irons than with SGIs.

The shaft you pick also determines workability. Check out the True Temper and Project X product sites to see how different shaft flexes, flightings, and kick points affect trajectory and shot shape.

With your handicap, I would suggest the G15 model. You can work the basic draw and fade with these, if your swing is in order. If you start shooting in the 80s and want to upgrade later, the G15s should bring a decent trade-in price.

Straight ahead? With high MOI (moment of inertia) clubs available, many of our fellow posters say the just try to hit everything straight. If you're still grooving your swing, you might try straight ahead, and then add in a occasional fade or draw.

Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
  • GolfWorks Clubmaking AcademyFitting, Assembly & Repair School (2012)

Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
Hybrid:  :callaway: Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  :callaway: Mavrik MAX 5i-PW
Wedges:  :callaway: MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter:image.png.b6c3447dddf0df25e482bf21abf775ae.pngInertial NM SL-583F, 34"  
Ball:  image.png.f0ca9194546a61407ba38502672e5ecf.png QStar Tour - Divide  ||  Bag: :sunmountain: Three 5 stand bag

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
What I am thinking is, I practice a lot. And I see a quick improvment in my game, I am thinking may be in the near future, I can "work the ball" too. A set of irons are expensive. Why don't I just get a set of i15. I may get frustrated once a while, but in long run, save me some money and improve quicker. What do you guys think?

the i15's are pretty workable, but they are very forgiving at the same time. so it's really your call. pings are quite easy to hit. hell, lee westwood still uses g15's


Posted
the i15's are pretty workable, but they are very forgiving at the same time. so it's really your call. pings are quite easy to hit. hell, lee westwood still uses g15's

Take a look at GD's "Bag" on Westwood. Driver is only G15 he carries.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equip...ood-my-golfbag He has all Ping clubs, with custom I10s as his irons.

Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
  • GolfWorks Clubmaking AcademyFitting, Assembly & Repair School (2012)

Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
Hybrid:  :callaway: Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  :callaway: Mavrik MAX 5i-PW
Wedges:  :callaway: MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter:image.png.b6c3447dddf0df25e482bf21abf775ae.pngInertial NM SL-583F, 34"  
Ball:  image.png.f0ca9194546a61407ba38502672e5ecf.png QStar Tour - Divide  ||  Bag: :sunmountain: Three 5 stand bag

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Workability is the ability to draw or fade the ball without having to drastically change your swing path. Clubs with high "workability" will more easily put sidespin on the ball with small swing changes, which is great for pros and scratch golfers that have consistent swings, and are able to intentionally make small changes to create different ballflights. For the rest of us, clubs with less "workability" are usually better, in my opinion, because we make small swing changes unintentionally all the time, and we'd prefer if these didn't create unintended changes in ballflight.

What's in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag:

Driver - Taylormade Superfast 2.0 TP 10.5
3 Wood - Taylormade Burner 15* REAX
Hybrid - Adams Idea Pro 18* GD YSQ-HL

Irons - Callaway X-18 4-PW

GW - Cleveland 588 51*

SW - Cleveland CG 12 56*

LW - Cleveland CG15 60*

Putter - Cameron Studio Style Newport 2

Bushnell Medalist rangefinder


Posted
Workability is the ability to draw or fade the ball without having to drastically change your swing path. Clubs with high "workability" will more easily put sidespin on the ball with small swing changes, which is great for pros and scratch golfers that have consistent swings, and are able to intentionally make small changes to create different ballflights. For the rest of us, clubs with less "workability" are usually better, in my opinion, because we make small swing changes unintentionally all the time, and we'd prefer if these didn't create unintended changes in ballflight.

+1 More "workable" irons are usually also more "sliceable" if your swing is off or inconsistent. I'd agree with other posts that until you're shooting in the 80's regularly you're probably better off with more forgiving clubs, i.e. G15's (which are also "sliceable", but a little less likely or severely perhaps).

Driver: Cleveland Classic 270, 10.5*
Fairway Woods: Adams Speedline LP (3 & 5)
Hybrids: Wilson Staff Fybrids 21*, 24*, UST V2 stiff
Irons: Callaway X-20 Tour, 5-PW, Rifle Project-X (flighted) 6.0
Wedges: Cleveland CG15 DSG 52* & 58* +/- 56* Niblick

Putter: Yes! Amy


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  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. 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    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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