Feel 'nothing' when hit sweet spot with blades

[Leftygolfer]

I can tell instantly if I missed it with any club. The result might be ok but before I even look down at the club I think or mutter I missed it off the toe or thin (I rarely miss heel side). Last night I went to the range in the heat, and I missed one and right after I hit it watching it fly, I say "damn I toed it" and I look down and where is the strike mark? It is apparent to me even if it looked like a good shot to the outsider. I am not sure how the shot coming up 20 yards short is more feedback, it just seems like a worse result. I personally like getting away with misses. People don't ask what did you shoot and what kind of clubs do you have? I play with a +.4 and he uses some nothing special GI irons but you know where he hits it, right in the freakin center all the time. He goes out and shoots around par almost everytime, hits 10 greens in a row, if his putter is hot makes lots of birdies. He makes the game look easy. He is comfortable with his old irons and dirty wedges.

Does he need new irons to make him better so he doesn't hit his stock push draw all the time? I think not.

[tristanhilton85]

A good swing is a good swing no matter what club you use to produce it. However a bad swing still can have an ok result with a GI club and that really isn't the case with a blade. This is why I agree with the idea that blades "force" a player to improve, because their mishits aren't going be be ok anymore and so they really need to put in the effort to learn to strike the ball better. With a GI club there isn't always that sense of urgency to improve because if you miss it, it's no big deal.

This is why as a fairly high H'capper I play more of a players club (Hogan Apex Plus) over a GI club. Obviously the Hogans still give me a bit more forgiveness than a full on blade but you can't get away with completely crappy swings with them either like you can with some of the new GI clubs. This forces me to be on the range more often working on consistency.

[golfro]

A good swing is a good swing no matter what club you use to produce it. However a bad swing still can have an ok result with a GI club and that really isn't the case with a blade.

See, this is where the wrong mentality is... blades don't somehow make you improve...PRACTICE does. Its generalized statements like this that make people think "oh surely blades will make me a better player because it will be more transparent with feedback"

Sorry but if you dont practice bucket after bucket at the range and practice to improve, no blade or GI or SGI is going to make you a better ball striker. That should be first and foremost...not the equipment.

[sean_miller]

. . . I play more of a players club (Hogan Apex Plus) over a GI club

I was surprised to see how difficult old Ralph Maltby ranks those irons.

link

[sean_miller]

See, this is where the wrong mentality is... blades don't somehow make you improve...PRACTICE does. Its generalized statements like this that make people think "oh surely blades will make me a better player because it will be more transparent with feedback"

Speaking of generalized statements . . . a lot of people make huge improvements when they go from methodically hitting bucket after bucket to actually take a few moments between shots and thinking about what just happened and what they want to do with the next shot. I can get more productivity from hitting 30 balls in 30 minutes than Joe Lunchpail in the next stall who hits 5 large buckets of balls in the same time frame.

[golfro]

You're right. I didn't mean hit bucket after bucket like a damn gorilla. Think through with each swing...but the fact remains, practice is key.

[alo1984]

It's funny how people have to prove they're right no matter what. I really don't think there are many people here (perhaps there are on most courses) who believe that playing with a certain set of irons will magically make them better. That's ridiculous. However, it's equally ridiculous to say that playing a blade in no way has anything to do with improving your game. No, you don't get better because of the great feel of a blade or some magical feedback. But, take a decent player who is motivated to get better and spend time practicing and I guarantee you he'll come out a better golfer having honed his game with blades over GI's. Blades allow a player to play a vastly different game than GI irons. I really don't see how this can even be debated.

I know not everyone is going to be physically capable of hitting blades well, and that's what's good about GI's, but blades will force a motivated player to concentrate harder on making the right impact move if he wants to achieve good results.

[sean_miller]

Blades allow a player to play a vastly different game than GI irons. I really don't see how this can even be debated.

I'll have to take your word for it. The only thing switching back to musclebacks (~ 15 years ago) did for me was allow me to keep the ball down when I wanted. Is trajectory control what you meant?

[tristanhilton85]

See, this is where the wrong mentality is...

I agree, practice does make you improve. No doubt about that. If you would take the time to read my post, that's essentially what I said... if you are playing with blades and want to play at a decent level you HAVE to practice more which you don't have to do with GI irons. Never did I say that blades make you play better. All blades do is provide a smaller sweet spot which in turn forces you to make better contact to produce a decent and more consistent result... a GI iron has a larger sweet spot and so mishits don't matter as much. So for a mid to high handicapper using a blade they must put in extra time on the range... I'm pretty sure that would be practice.

So yeah, the blades don't actually make you play better, the practice does, but the blades are the reason that you're hitting bucket after bucket.

[tristanhilton85]

I was surprised to see how difficult old Ralph Maltby ranks those irons.

Yeah, I don't think they're quite that hard, definitely easier to hit than the regular Apex. Worth noting that my clubs aren't the '99 model but rather the last ones they produced (2007, according to the Ben Hogan time line on their site). Not sure if this would make a difference in where they would rank playability wise as I'm not sure the specs are too different from one another.

[alo1984]

Trajectory control is part of it. It's the overall control of a blade that is appealing. It's hard to shape shots with GI irons that are offset in order to keep shots going straight, but a blade is more neutral to start with which allows some workability.

[Gerald]

Pfffff you keep going on ..... there are also lots of cavity back players iron, with minimum offset. Even the vast majority of Tour Pro's play these irons, but the 5 - 10 hc amateurs keep thinking that blades (who's is playing blades, most blades are in no way blades actually) will make them magicans with the ball. I know many serious even + handicapers playing players cavity backs or even minimum offset high end GI irons hitting these dead center 99% of the time, still practice also a lot, and benefit from great misses if the have an "off"-day ...... if you play blades, and you have an "off"-day ..... hope you have a calculator with you to count your scores.....

[golfro]

Trajectory control is part of it. It's the overall control of a blade that is appealing. It's hard to shape shots with GI irons that are offset in order to keep shots going straight, but a blade is more neutral to start with which allows some workability.

yes because a 15+ handicap is really looking to shape shots and have more control. sorry but let's worry about hitting the ball straight consistently before getting ahead of ourselves.

[tristanhilton85]

Pfffff you keep going on ..... there are also lots of cavity back players iron, with minimum offset. Even the vast majority of Tour Pro's play these irons, but the 5 - 10 hc amateurs keep thinking that blades (who's is playing blades, most blades are in no way blades actually) will make them magicans with the ball. I know many serious even + handicapers playing players cavity backs or even minimum offset high end GI irons hitting these dead center 99% of the time, still practice also a lot, and benefit from great misses if the have an "off"-day ...... if you play blades, and you have an "off"-day ..... hope you have a calculator with you to count your scores.....

High 'cappers, or anybody for that matter, using blades are forced to practice a lot because as it was said if you "have an 'off'-day .... hope you have a calculator with you to count your scores..."

yes because a 15+ handicap is really looking to shape shots and have more control. sorry but let's worry about hitting the ball straight consistently before getting ahead of ourselves.

This should be obvious. A 15+ handicap should look to just hit the ball straight without worrying about shaping shots. However, I think with the right amont of practice (a lot), blades will help here more than GI irons, because you can't get away with too much crap.

Now, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I do not for a second believe that just because a person plays a blade that they will become a better golfer all of a sudden. What I do believe is that a person with blades must practice more and become a better ball striker to achieve the same result as somebody with GI irons. I think that this sort of thing can be good for a high 'capper because they have to learn to make a solid, repeatable swing; which isn't necessarily the case with GI irons.

[Gerald]

Now, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I do not for a second believe that just because a person plays a blade that they will become a better golfer all of a sudden. What I do believe is that a person with blades must practice more and become a better ball striker to achieve the same result as somebody with GI irons. I think that this sort of thing can be good for a high 'capper because they have to learn to make a solid, repeatable swing; which isn't necessarily the case with GI irons.

No ...... if you practice a lot and in the right way, you might become a better ballstriker, no matter which kind of clubs you have in your hands. But as soon as you are a better ballstriker, you still benefit from forgiviness in a GI iron. There is ZERO need to make things more difficult then necessary. If GI irons would turn bad strikers into good ones, all GI iron players would be single handicappers

But if you like the looks of a blade or muscle back (or blade alike semi GI), and don't mind the punishment you for sure will get from time to time, don't hold back and go for it ......

[sean_miller]

But if you like the looks of a blade or muscle back (or blade alike semi GI), and don't mind the punishment you for sure will get from time to time, don't hold back and go for it ......

Why would that be more punishing than any other type of iron? Maybe with stock grips, sure. I demoed a few irons last summer and wasn't impressed with players cavity backs. Some looked okay but felt like crap and some looked great and felt just okay. Anything with a stock grip tends to feel like garbage - not interested.

I didn't demo new musclebacks - I have more than a couple sets of those already and I'm pretty sure they haven't improved on the Cleveland TA1 or early 90s Mizunos with DG S300s, so why spend $1000 on what I already have.

[tristanhilton85]

No ...... if you practice a lot and in the right way, you might become a better ballstriker, no matter which kind of clubs you have in your hands. But as soon as you are a better ballstriker, you still benefit from forgiviness in a GI iron. There is ZERO need to make things more difficult then necessary. If GI irons would turn bad strikers into good ones, all GI iron players would be single handicappers

This is gonna be my last post to this thread, but once more I AGREE that it is the practice, not the club that makes you better; and I agree that it doesn't matter if that practice is with a 1970s blade or a brand new GI iron. My point was simply that a mishit on a GI iron is not going to be punished like it would be on a blade and a high 'capper playing this GI iron may be ok with how that shot comes out. That same swing with a blade would likely produce a much worse result forcing the player to practice more to get to something close to decent.

Put another way, all I'm saying is that GI irons let you get away with more than a blade... I don't think that there would be any disagreement there. So since you can't get away with as much using blades practice becomes that much more important to play at a decent level.

[golfro]

This is gonna be my last post to this thread, but once more I AGREE that it is the practice, not the club that makes you better; and I agree that it doesn't matter if that practice is with a 1970s blade or a brand new GI iron. My point was simply that a mishit on a GI iron is not going to be punished like it would be on a blade and a high 'capper playing this GI iron may be ok with how that shot comes out. That same swing with a blade would likely produce a much worse result forcing the player to practice more to get to something close to decent.

We all understand that GI irons do what they're set to do, which is be more forgiving but come on...more mis shotswith a blade doesnt FORCE anyone to practice. You practice because you want to practice, you don't need a mis shot on a blade to tell you that. It's a silly point to make... It would make more sense to say you want to practice more so you can hit blades...not get blades so you can practice more.