Can PGA Rules Officials be Proactive?

[pittpanther]

So we all know about the Dustin Johnson fiasco at the PGA. But it appears there was a rules official walking with DJ and his caddy. Is the official allowed to speak up BEFORE an infraction occurs, and say "Hey DJ, you know this is a bunker, right?"

When I discussed the situation with wifey, she says "Why did they wait until AFTER the round to tell DJ he was in a bunker?" Given the way they let the spectators surround the "bunker," I have to agree. To me it just looked like a sandy spot that perhaps used to have grass but was trampled by the weekend. Only after the people cleared out could you see the defined borders of a bunker.

Too bad for DJ - a situation where the gallery really screwed things up for him.

[albatross]

So we all know about the Dustin Johnson fiasco at the PGA. But it appears there was a rules official walking with DJ and his caddy. Is the official allowed to speak up BEFORE an infraction occurs, and say "Hey DJ, you know this is a bunker, right?"

I can't really imagine that ever happening. Can it happen? I'm not even sure. Tour Officials tend to speak when they have been spoken to or the player asks a question. They aren't there to KEEP a player from making an infraction, they are there to ENFORCE a rule when an infraction is made and answer questions as they arise on the course.

[plugged]

They are not prohibited from saying anything, and in this case, down to the final pairing and the championship at stake, I don't think anyone would fault the rules official for providing a friendly reminder.

[Clambake]

A good example was at the 2008 US Open (I forget when, but either the final round or playoff) when Rocco dropped a ball which rolled a bit - he started to bend over to pick it up and redrop and a rules official said "ball's in play Rocco". From other stories I've heard it sounds like it isn't too uncommon for there to be a regular dialog going on with the rules officials during the round. Just unfortunate it didn't happen this time.

[Jay-Bird]

Speed limits are posted on streets. Your suggestion is tantamount to cops standing there reminding motorists "hey, this is a 30 mph zone... Watch your speed..."

[DavidFehertysBike]

They are not required to say anything, no. But considering the situation i think a official should have spoken up. DJ looked completely oblivious to the situation he was really in. But its also possible that the trailing official wasn't aware of the bunker, either.

[Clambake]

Speed limits are posted on streets. Your suggestion is tantamount to cops standing there reminding motorists "hey, this is a 30 mph zone... Watch your speed..."

Hmmm, considering most people don't drive the speed limit until there IS that cop parked there, this may not be the best example.

[sean_miller]

Hmmm, considering most people don't drive the speed limit until there IS that cop parked there, this may not be the best example.

Hah - no kidding.

Why would they warn the last group after a guy had already hit over there? Why not just warn him on the tee box? Better yet, why not post the rules before they even tee off on hole #1?

[TourSpoon]

I don't think it would be appropriate for the rules officials to be proactive as it is almost against the spirit of the game which I interpret as not taking advice.

[Fourputt]

So we all know about the Dustin Johnson fiasco at the PGA. But it appears there was a rules official walking with DJ and his caddy. Is the official allowed to speak up BEFORE an infraction occurs, and say "Hey DJ, you know this is a bunker, right?"

I work as RO for the Colorado Golf Association, and if I see a player about to commit a breach I will do my best to stop him before he does it. That IS part of the job. But it isn't my job to tell him where he is on the course... the player should be aware of that. When his ball lies in sand, it should immediately start the alarm bells ringing, and he should assume that it is a bunker until he is told otherwise. If he has any doubt he should ask. In that case, if the RO tells him that he is not in a bunker, then the RO's ruling is law, even if he is wrong, and no penalty will apply. Sometimes a player will act in an unexpected manner faster than the RO can speak up, such as here where Johnson grounded his club. I doubt that the RO had any idea that it was going happen until it was too late to do anything but assess the penalty.

Rules Officials aren't perfect. We are told going in that there are only two kinds... those who have made an incorrect ruling, and those who will do so in the future. This may not have been the best day for the RO assigned to Johnson's group.

[mcfc_nick]

i just dont understand why that wasnt one of the few bunkers that they look after, i mean its not a million miles out of the way especially on a hole that difficult, i felt so sorry for DJ yesterday

[sacm3bill]

I don't think it would be appropriate for the rules officials to be proactive as it is almost against the spirit of the game which I interpret as not taking advice.

The prohibition against advice pertains only to things like what club to use, how to play a shot, lining up a putt, etc. It doesn't apply to things like rules, yardages, or the like.

[TourSpoon]

The prohibition against advice pertains only to things like what club to use, how to play a shot, lining up a putt, etc. It doesn't apply to things like rules, yardages, or the like.

Right, but how proactive should an official really be..."Hey Craig, don't even think about kneeling on that towel to build a stance, that would be a violation of the Rules of Golf". I read Fourputt's post and I know that he knows these things, but how far can you go to save someone from themselves and then in turn saving them some strokes? I can see when a player calls upon an official for advice. What if DJ had asked the official for a ruling and then the guy says no infraction, would that have been the end of it? Bottom line on DJ, when he saw sand, he should have been cautious.

[pittpanther]

Right, but how proactive should an official really be..."Hey Craig, don't even think about kneeling on that towel to build a stance, that would be a violation of the Rules of Golf". I read Fourputt's post and I know that he knows these things, but how far can you go to save someone from themselves and then in turn saving them some strokes? I can see when a player calls upon an official for advice. What if DJ had asked the official for a ruling and then the guy says no infraction, would that have been the end of it? Bottom line on DJ, when he saw sand, he should have been cautious.

As soon as the RO saw Stadler kneeling, he COULD have said "Hey Craig? WTF are you doing? That's illegal!"

You guys say the officials shouldn't say anything - So according to that logic, they should have waited for DJ to sign his scorecard. And THEN told him "Sorry, you're now DQ'd for signing an incorrect card..." After all, DJ might have given himself a penalty at the last moment...

[sean_miller]

As soon as the RO saw Stadler kneeling, he COULD have said "Hey Craig? WTF are you doing? That's illegal!"

Yeah, except nobody at the golf course noticed the infraction. It was somebody at home watching on TV who called in - what a douchey thing to do. Can you imagine the phones ringing off the hook is they accepted call during the World Cup of football?

[Judah Ben-Hur]

I'm sure if you looked real good at alot of footage from tournaments over the years, you'd be shocked. Would they then take the trophy out of someones den 10 years after having one the big one? lol

Sometimes watching the PGA coverage over the last few days, a guy would hit a bad shot into the high grass from an overhead view. They go to commercial break and come back, then he's hitting a nice and high ball out of a bunker. I could have sworn from the overhead that a ball was lying in the green stuff. WTF!

[Bigtank]

On the weekends many times there are officals with every group. However they do not solicit advice on rules unless asked. He should have asked, and let the offical make the call. If the offical makes the call, it is law!

I feel horrible for DJ, however all the players were specifically warned in the players meeting as the first order of business on Tuesday. There was an issue in 04 with "is this a waste bunker or not" so they made the local rule of all intended bunkers, play as bunkers. I understand the heat of battle for DJ, but that is one of those things you have a caddy for.

It sucks, but it goes to show again, the integrity of our sport over some of the others. DJ will have other chances!

[iacas]

From an RO:

http://freedrop.wordpress.com/2010/0...aid-something/

So, we do try to help players avoid penalties. We don’t want to get in the player’s way so I’m not sure I would have thought that I needed to remind Johnson he was in a bunker as that is not something we’d usually mention. Even if Price had said something, would Johnson have been paying attention at that point. He was trying to focus on his shot and the situation.

It is always difficult dealing with the issue of when to tell a player there is a problem. Usually, unless I was right there and could tell him right when it happened or prevent a further violation (serious breach etc), I wouldn’t say anything until the current hole was complete. Interrupting the player in the middle of the play of the hole is not preferred.