Course Designing?

[nhwoj]

Anyone else here a wannabe course architect/designer? I'm just kinda drawing out some ideas right now, and I'm looking for some feedback. I'm taking some CAD-type classes in high school right now and am semi-interested in a career in architecture.

So to sum up this post, I've got some ideas and I was wondering if anyone else had some ideas of their own that they would want to share or if anyone wanted to take a look at some work I've been doing. Thanks for any feedback guys, I appreciate it. I'll probably be uploading some sketches within a day or two.

[Bubba_13]

I can't offer much feedback other then that if you find something that you have a passion for follow it. I love golf course design. I will watch the tour for the course design just as much as the golf. I had a match play with one of the owners of our club and during the whole match we chatted about future changes to the course. It was great to listen to what they had planned and be able to throw in my ideas. (not expecting him to use them but it was fun none the less)

Get yourself an 'in' at a local course and work with the grounds crew to start learning the in's and out's of a course. Keep drawing. Looking forward to seeing some sketches.

[Clambake]

I concur that following one's passion is a good recipe for a happier life, but also make sure you go into it with a sense of perpsective. As a career, golf course architecture is at a tremendous low point right now. In the November issue of Golf Digest, there is an article that says there are fewer than a dozen courses being built right now. Most golf course construction over the last few decades has been tied with housing developments, and even before the economic crash, many of those were failed efforts with the golf course closing. So what this means is that as a profession, you'll encounter very few available opportunities and compete against many existing designers, some of them who have just little name recognition like Dye, Jones, Nicklaus, Crenshaw, Norman, Couples, etc. And there have been numerous articles in the last few years about how all of the big name firms are hurting a lot. I forget who it was and the exact numbers, but I read about six months ago that one of the big firms (I think perhaps it was Rees Jones) had dropped from 40 people to just several; the gist of the article was that all of the currently active course architecture firms were going through a huge metamorphasis and downsizing, and the future prospects were pretty grim.

I don't want to rain on your dreams at all, but simply suggest that you go into this passion with open eyes and really try to understand within yourself what makes this a passion for you - if you understand that, then you may find many tangential opportunities that are really at the root of what you want to do. What is it about golf course architecture that makes it interesting for you? Is it the creation of something aesthetic? Is it the design process, using CAD to bring ideas to a plan? Perhaps the enjoyment of doing drawings to show your vision? If you can reallly understand the inner appeal, perhaps you'll find that you'd love to develop as a painter of courses, or that doing parks and municipal space design scratches the same itch, or ???

If you really want to do course design, that's fantastic, but just go into with an understanding of the challenges you'll face. And if you are able to truly find what is making that spark, you'll be one of the luckiest ones as I think most people really fail to understand that about themselves, and you'll be far ahead and will no doubt find a career direction that is truly rewarding.

Good Luck!!!

[uttexas]

I imagine architecture and golf course design to be an extremely gratifying process. I agree with clambake on the current outlook. However, you should do what you love and interests you. Stay diversified and learn things like playground/football stadium/park/outdoor space construction. Many rural parts of our country will continue to be urbanized. They will need architects for city planning to build new highschools, court houses, jails, football stadiums, and outdoor living/recreational spaces.

Be careful posting designs on the internet, these are your intellectual property.

I really enjoy reading about golf course architecture as a hobby.
Here are some good websites.
http://thecaddyshack.blogspot.com/
http://www.asgca.org/

[nhwoj]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate it.

[jamo]

I believe Golf Digest has a course design contest once a year. You design a hole and submit it and they name a winner. But really the only way to catch on as a course architect is to work for one of the big guys. Nicklaus design, Rees Jones, Pete Dye. It would be very hard to go it alone.

Also can you really design a whole hole on CAD? Seems like that would be an awfully large file, and would be very slow unless you have a super fast computer. Pencil and paper seems to be the way to me.

[Shorty]

Be careful posting designs on the internet, these are your intellectual property.

???????

Every golf course architect will say that the first thing you do when designing a course is to look at what nature has provided and work with that. That is ALWAYS the starting point, not some fantasy hole or course that you have in your head. I don't think that there is any problem posting imaginary designs on the internet.

[alf174]

If your serious, a degree in civil engineering will help you propel an entry into course designing.

[HazardMagnet]

I drive an awfull lot at work and I like to look at farmfields and peoples property and imagine what that would be as a hole, where would the hazzards be, well placed bunkers etc... alas I can't draw unless it's on graph paper (woodworking is my other passion). Some one wrote earlier, start with what mother nature has provided and work with that. That's what I let my imagination do.

4 years ago, when I first took up golf, I found myself working with the head of the grounds keeping crew at a fairly new private golf course, to provide my companies Cable TV service to the club house and office they were constructing (Bulls Bridge CC. Kent, Ct.) This Gent was incredibly friendly and told me a ton of information about course design and how it is maintained, the schooling he had attended and where he had worked in the past. I was fasinated by his wealth of knolledge... Maybe you can hook yourself up at a course and gain such an insight.

[oakdale]

If your serious, a degree in

or Landscape Architecture. I played a round this weekend at the SUNY Delhi college course (beautiful course btw) in upstate NY, and they have a bunch of golf related programs you could look into.

http://www.delhi.edu/academics/acade...ence/index.php I'm an Architect (buildings, not landscape) and if you're planning on going into a design field, my only advice is don't count on a lot of money once you get out of school. it's a difficult career path, sometimes rewarding, sometimes extremely frustrating. Not a lot of the people i went to architecture school with stuck with it once they graduated. Also as someone else pointed out, the last decade was a boom for golf course construction, but now... not so much, it's going to be a while before things pick up again.

[jamo]

If your serious, a degree in

That's a good major too, a lot of sub-fields you can go into.

[WUTiger]

???????

I'm a fan of golf course design and sustainable recreation areas. I probably spend as much time reading greenskeeping magazines as I do Golf Magazine and Golf Digest. And, I tap into online golf architecture sites in my spare time.

When I'm at Border's or Barnes & Noble, I look at the tables of discounted coffee table books, hoping to find something on golf course design. My biggest finds: Nicklaus by Design and Top 100 Courses You Can Play for about $5 each. The Nicklaus book talks about all the headaches course designers have working with the money people. A recurring headache - you have the land cleared for the fairways, and the money people decide to move the clubhouse location. Basically, you start over on some of the holes. The classic courses show all about working with Mother Nature. In my area, we have Normandie Golf Club, the oldest public course west of the Mississippi, still in its original location. It was built in 1901 by Robert Foulis, who was trained by Old Tom Morris at St. Andrew's. Back then, you didn't move 50,000 cubic yards of dirt for a short par 3 - you worked with the lay of the land. All the holes are good, and a half-dozen are truly memorable. Check our the NGC site: http://www.normandiegolf.com/ As far as technical goes, most companies use CAD for hole design after they make rough sketches on paper. In south St. Louis County we have Quail Creek, a public course developed by Hale Irwin. Framed CAD printouts for the different hole areas line the clubhouse walls. Very interesting to see the detail.

[right handed phil mickelson]

Anyone else here a wannabe course architect/designer? I'm just kinda drawing out some ideas right now, and I'm looking for some feedback. I'm taking some CAD-type classes in high school right now and am semi-interested in a career in architecture.

I'm the exact same way right now man. I'm really interested in architecture and specifically golf course architecture. I'm in my 3rd year of Auto-CAD classes (Drafting 3) down here and I'm working with the golf course architect at my home course to design some stuff. I'm currently working on a project to draw up some sketches for a golf course for a community that me and my friends are building for that class. I hope to turn it into a career one day if my golfing doesn't work out. Or I'll do both haha. but I'd love to see some of you're ideas and drawings. And if you need any help I'll be glad to offer some advice.