Why buy new clubs?... Re: USGA new rulings.

[Spaulding]

I am a male 49 with a 15.4 handicap. If I am lucky with 3 kids I get out two to three times per month and one golf trip a year where I play 36 holes each day. My problem is consistancy and not distance. I can be 2 over after 6 or 7 holes only to go + 10 on the next 3 holes. That is the story of my golf life.

Here is my question. I have been playing with Ping Copper Berillium irons for the past 25+ years. Just last year I got a 460cc Taylor Made Burner Driver to replace my Big Bertha and that upgrade in drivers helped my consistancy a lot. The larger size head really helped me get my drives straighter more often.

I figured with the new technology in golf clubs over the past 25 years that if I got a new set of irons I could really impove my game due to extra forgivness in many new clubs and if I got extra distance with a new set that would be icing on the cake. But I have been hearing that the USGA is changing or already has changed the ruling on the club grooves and will make putting spin on the ball much more difficult. Now with my ping copper Ber and their Square grooves I can spin the ball big time. I actually stopped using a Strata ball because I would spin it off the green on an approach shot.

So should I look to upgrade my irons? If so why or why not. I was really hoping that a new set of irons would improve my game as much as the new 460cc driver did for my tee shots.

Thanks

[1par2win]

The new groove rule only applies to the top amateur and professional ranks and mere mortals like ourselves are exempt until 2024. Here is a link to the specifics.

http://golf.about.com/od/equipment/a...oove-rules.htm

As far a getting a new set or irons I really don't think your doing all that bad with your current Pings. I my opinion, the technology spirt has affected drivers and woods more than irons but with that said there are a lot of choices for game improvement irons. My suggestion would be to spend time looking around this site to see what others have already said about new clubs. There is no shortage of opinions I'll tell you that!

[Spaulding]

Thanks for the reply. But the golf club mfg will stop making the existing groove styles after this year. So if I buy clubs a year or two from now I will be forced to get the new groove style. As for my Pings. Don't you think that the tecnology has advanced in the past 25 years with irons? Perhaps it hasn't I really don't know. If I keep my pings should I get them "sharpened" What ever that exactly means.

[1par2win]

Take a look at the link and I think that will answer your questions about the grooves. As far as the technology advancing in irons yes, there has been improvements. But in my opinion I do not think the improvements in irons are as significant as they have been in drivers. Heck we got one guy at my club that still plays with TA 845's and he's a 3 handicap! But I think the most important advancement has been club fitting. Whatever you do make sure you get to a club fitter and get some measurements! All the OEM's (Taylor Made, Ping, Callaway, ect) make great equipment so you cant go wrong with any of them.

[max power]

Thanks for the reply. But the golf club mfg will stop making the existing groove styles after this year. So if I buy clubs a year or two from now I will be forced to get the new groove style. As for my Pings. Don't you think that the tecnology has advanced in the past 25 years with irons? Perhaps it hasn't I really don't know. If I keep my pings should I get them "sharpened" What ever that exactly means.

Iron technology has advanced, but not as drastically as in drivers, fwy woods, hybrids. Center of gravity has been lowered in many clubs, but if you don't have a problem getting your PINGs up in the air it would make little difference. The "new grooves" will make very little difference in the amount of spin on 99% of your shots. The only noticeable difference with V vs. U grooves is out of deep rough, and most those shots are with a PW, GW, SW, LW, etc. My Mizuno MX-200s and MacGregor MT Pro-CMs both have conforming V grooves and I spin the ball just as much as I ever have.

[SouthernILGolfer]

Dont neccessarily have to buy new irons, plenty of great used sets out there on ebay, craigslist and sometimes on here. Taylormade r7's and Callaway x-14 or x-18's. I even saw a set of almost new Taylormade Burner irons 5-pw for just over $200 at a local golf store which might be the best bet as you could actually hit them and see what you like the best. If you've been playing with the same clubs for that long you obviously must have really liked them. Ive got a friend with a set of 845's he's had for 10+ years and still plays them but he has 3 young children and doesnt get out to play very often any more, the youngest being just over a year old. My advice is to go try out a few sets and see if they help. If you find something you like then great, if not keep playing what you've already got.

[Fourputt]

Thanks for the reply. But the golf club mfg will stop making the existing groove styles after this year. So if I buy clubs a year or two from now I will be forced to get the new groove style. As for my Pings. Don't you think that the tecnology has advanced in the past 25 years with irons? Perhaps it hasn't I really don't know. If I keep my pings should I get them "sharpened" What ever that exactly means.

Mostly, you just don't need to worry about it. You say you are a 3 times a month player.... you aren't even going to notice any difference. I play a lot more than that and I changed 2 years ago.... no difference. My handicap has remained the same, and the reaction of the ball on the green is no different than it's ever been. A good shot will stick, and a poor shot may or may not. I really doubt that you would ever know what sort of grooves your clubs have just by playing them. This whole issue has been beaten to death, and for no good reason. It has amost reached the point of being a form of paranoia in some cases. The typical amateur golfer will never know the difference.

[max power]

Mostly, you just don't need to worry about it. You say you are a 3 times a month player.... you aren't even going to notice any difference. I play a lot more than that and I changed 2 years ago.... no difference. My handicap has remained the same, and the reaction of the ball on the green is no different than it's ever been. A good shot will stick, and a poor shot may or may not. I really doubt that you would ever know what sort of grooves your clubs have just by playing them. This whole issue has been beaten to death, and for no good reason. It has amost reached the point of being a form of paranoia in some cases. The typical amateur golfer will never know the difference.

Good point-I guarantee that most of us wouldn't notice the difference. I thought my MacGregors had the old grooves based on the amount of spin I was getting, until I read that they were conforming.

[shankalots]

If your pings are starting to look old, lots of places are offering a refinishing service and from what I've heard they come out looking almost brand new. If you play them well I don't see why you would get rid of them.

[Spaulding]

Gentlemen; Thank you for all your replies. I just found this site and already I have found some very sound advice.

Now as for my iron dilemma, I am very happy with my pings. I hit the ball high sometimes to a point where people comment how high. I can stop the ball on the green. When I use the Pro V’s my approach shot (When on target) is like the titlist commercial. It drops and stops.

As I mentioned up above my problem is consistency. I know that getting out only a few times a month will not give you consistency but when I changed drivers from my Big Bertha to my 460cc Taylor Made Burner the consistency of my drives improved dramatically. That is due to the larger sweet spot and the increase to the club heads “Moment of Inertia” (MOI) to resist the head from turning. I’m an engineer so the catch phrase “Moment of Inertia” many Mfg’s used caught my eye. And believe it or not the increase in the “MOI” does make the club head more resistant to turning if the ball is miss hit off the toe or heel. If a shot is hit off the toe the head will start to twist around the shaft and therefore open up and the ball will push off to the right (with a right handed golfer) The new engineering the 460cc heads make for less twisting so a ball hit off the toe will not go as far right since the club head doesn’t twist as much, but enough of schooling for today.

My main reason for looking into new irons is to get more forgiveness on a miss hit due to the increased technology in iron club design over the last 25 years. When and if I get new irons I will definitely get them custom fit. When I bought my pings I got the black dot lie model. According to the ping fit chart I think I needed the orange but they were out of stock at the time and this was when the big suit was going on between the USGA and Ping over the square grooves. I was told the difference between the black dot and the orange dot was about 1 degree. I was shooting about a 110 on a good day back then. The clubs looked cool so I bought them. They were the second set of clubs I have ever owned. The first set got stolen out of my car a year after I bought them.

So if I am not going to see any improvement and not get any forgiveness I don’t see a reason to get new clubs. I agree that most of the advancement in golf clubs have been to the drivers and other woods but there has not been a major improvement to the irons in the last 25 years? I don’t know that’s why I am up on this site. If I keep my clubs should I get the grooves re-done? Can you get existing clubs custom fit to how you swing now? I don’t care that the clubs don’t look new. I could put the heads in a bucket of Pepsi overnight and they would come out sparking! Have you ever seen what Pepsi or Coke does to copper overnight? Put a penny in a small cup tonight and find out. Anyway do grooves in clubs wear out? If so what should I do?

Now for the person above who commented that the new ruling on the grooves will not be noticed by most amateur golfers, from what I read in an article that is not true at all. (I will try to find the article and post it up) The author wrote that it was un-fair for the USGA to change the groove styles because the pro’s have already adjusted and the amateur golfer is going to “take it on the chin” The gist was the amateur golfer will have a very hard time adjusting because balls that used to stick on the green will now roll off because there will be “a lot” less spin on the ball with the new club groove design. Thanks for all the help and please keep it coming.

[WUTiger]

If these Ping Copper Berylliums are in the Eye-2 family, they are rated as Super Game Improvement. If they have the JaZ (??) shafts, which are between regular and stiff, you might consider a reshaft. Otherwise, you've already got a great set of clubs that you know the feel of.

(I played some Ping Eye-2 clones from 1994 until last spring, and I switched mainly because I went from stiff to regular shafts.)

[Spaulding]

If these Ping Copper Berylliums are in the Eye-2 family, they are rated as Super Game Improvement. If they have the JaZ (??) shafts, which are between regular and stiff, you might consider a reshaft. Otherwise, you've already got a great set of clubs that you know the feel of.

Yes they are the Ping Eye 2 Clubs. Where did you get the rating on these clubs? I would have to check the shafts because I just don't know what they are.

If I got the clubs reshafted would I be able to get them custom fitted at the same time or has that boat left the port.

[1par2win]

You would be able to customize your current set. What you would need to do is get your swing speed measured (mph, launch angle, spin rate,ect) and static measurements (length from your wrist to the floor, ect) for lie angles. Once this is done then selecting a shaft can be much easier. What I would recommend if you going to overhaul your Pings is to get your measurments, know what shaft you need, and send the clubs back to Ping for reshafting and refurbishing. They can clean up the heads and grooves, install the new shafts, tweak what is needed (adjust loft and lies) based on your information, and put a nice new fresh grips on your clubs. I think the reason more people don't do this is the lure of "new" clubs is always lurking and lord knows the club mfg's sure do know this. Also, the cost of having all this done is pretty close to getting a nice used set anyway. So now that the season is winding down you have a pretty good opportunity to weight your options.

[WUTiger]

Yes they are the Ping Eye 2 Clubs. Where did you get the rating on these clubs? ....

I got the rating from club designer Ralph Maltby's book (2005),

The Maltby Playability Factor - Book One: MPF irons . The book lists the Eye-2 model with MPF = 724, which is Super Game Improvement. Book has since been revised. NOTE: Maltby designed a six-category rating system, ranging from Ultra Game Improvement down to Player Classic. Golf Digest uses a three-category system: SGI, GI, and Players. If you're interested, check Maltby's website. He gives MPF updates each year, and also blogs about club designs. http://www.ralphmaltby.com/ You could get a custom fitting. If you hit your irons well, you probably are OK on lie angle; but, you might find a better shaft.

[ronaldkuntoro]

I am a male 49 with a 15.4 handicap. If I am lucky with 3 kids I get out two to three times per month and one golf trip a year where I play 36 holes each day. My problem is consistancy and not distance. I can be 2 over after 6 or 7 holes only to go + 10 on the next 3 holes. That is the story of my golf life.

You have been playing with your irons for 25+ years. The groove on your iron have worn out many days ago. I think you should get a new set of irons.

New Irons are more forgiving and farther (because the loft has been decreased). I tested Cobra S2. It's far and very forgiving. Plus it's USGA conformed with the new groove rule. Another great iron is Titleist AP1 (ver.2). It's beautiful and has a great feel. It's also conforming.

[Spaulding]

I contacted Ping and they said while they could put on shafts on my existing head, if I got fitted they said they would not and do not recommend having the grooves re-sharpened. They said it could throw off the weight of the head and also make the head thinner which could change the ball flight. They recommended the G15 and the K15. I guess all mfg's would recommend buy new clubs or else they could not stay in Business. I guess my next step is to keep researching and perhaps try out a set or two. But with the rule change I really don't want to get new clubs with the new USGA groove standard. At 49 by the time they rule comes into effect I will be almost 60 and will not give a hoot. Any other thoughts are welcome.

[max power]

I contacted Ping and they said while they could put on shafts on my existing head, if I got fitted they said they would not and do not recommend having the grooves re-sharpened. They said it could throw off the weight of the head and also make the head thinner which could change the ball flight. They recommended the G15 and the K15. I guess all mfg's would recommend buy new clubs or else they could not stay in Business. I guess my next step is to keep researching and perhaps try out a set or two. But with the rule change I really don't want to get new clubs with the new USGA groove standard. At 49 by the time they rule comes into effect I will be almost 60 and will not give a hoot. Any other thoughts are welcome.

Don't base your decision on whether or not to get new irons on the "new" grooves. You won't notice any difference.